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What difference does the dilution make if we have no interest in the mine? Aa far as I can tell, we are proud shareholders in a company whose assets have been stripped. Or did something change over the last 12-18 months? I can't understand why they aren't just winding this up so we can get our tax loss and move on.
...is going on? I've completely lost track of this turd; just wondering why they don't wind it up so I can take a tax loss. I mean, the company is being sued for god knows how much, it has no rights to the mine anymore, yet they're still mucking around with exchanging debt for shares. Does anyone have any idea what the big plan is? The only reason I got into it to start with is because I figured the Finnish govt couldn't let it go belly up, so perhaps that rationale is still valid... but I just can't see where the value is supposed to be in all of this.
This was from the end of April, but I only just saw it: http://yle.fi/uutiset/ministers_will_decide_within_weeks_whether_to_let_talvivaara_fail/8848895
"That is complete nonsense. If the average price forecast falls, then of course it should affect either the production requirement or the cost side, in order to achieve profitability," Oksaharju said. http://yle.fi/uutiset/world_bank_lowers_nickel_price_projection_terrafame_sticks_to_optimistic_forecast/8693085
Well, it looks like TALV will have no assets after this is done... but it will also not have any debts. There is a lot of contorting going on in order to preserve TALV as a going concern - and I think that the reason for this is the large investment that the Finnish government has in TALV... otherwise they would have just let it go bankrupt. Assuming that at some point the first stage of the deal goes through, the next question will be what the subscription price will be for TALV to purchase the 10.1% (or more) of Terrafame. Let's not forget that Terrafame is fully owned by the Finnish state-owned company Terrafame Oy. So basically, you will have a state-owned company offering to sell some of itself to a company that is 60% owned by Finnish households (retirement money) and 30% companies (which are probably also state-owned). I think, again, that the government is trying to find a way for those Finnish households to not be totally wiped out in all of this. Hopefully, the rest of us will benefit from that association. I'm just wondering, though, what current TALV investors are going to cough up more money in order to buy into Terrafame. Personally speaking, I'll be happy to be diluted even more....
Oh hooray, now a movie about the disaster. As much as I hate to lose my investment in this turd, I must admit that I feel worse for the local population - if the story is true, it will take decades of dedicated clean up to right the wrongs of Talivaara. If my investment can go towards cleaning up the mess, I guess, at the end of the day, I can live with that. http://www.hs.fi/arviot/elokuva/a1453350512059
Meet the new boss; same as the old boss...
"Talvivaara continues its negotiations with Terrafame Group and prospective investors with a target of being able to invest in the Sotkamo mining operations or to secure a different financial and/or operative arrangement that will enable the continuance of the Company's viable business. The Company will update the market about the outcome of such discussions in due course." http://www.iii.co.uk/stockmarketwire/281565/talv-says-nyrstar-assigns-receivables-terrafame
Here's a good story. Just fiction of course. Two partners start a company. Partner #1 is a foreign entity that needs a local partner, so Partner #1 fronts 90%, while Partner #2 comes up with maybe 10%. Company takes a loan. Partner #1 doesn't realise that Partner #2 is basically behind the loan. Partner #2 contrives to have the company stop producing anything so that it has no income and can't pay its bills. This involves anything from local government passing new laws to prevent the company from operating, to having employees stop work, to whatever else it takes to stop the company from functioning. Company goes bankrupt. Creditor steps in and claims assets. Equity holders both wiped out. Creditor restarts company as 100% owner. As I said, just fiction of course.
Absolutely no news on this whatsoever - this is outrageous that even our capital loss potential is being withheld. Just get it over with already and kill this f-ing dog-turd of a company. Well done Finland, both on your supervision of Talvivaara, and now its demise. Not.
Would have been better news, I guess, if he'd bought rather than sold shares....
Other than obviously caring as a human about environmental concerns, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to care about the following article ("The scenario would mark the end of the newly-established mining company") - I have no idea if I'm a shareholder or not. http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business/13546-water-situation-at-talvivaara-threatens-new-mine-operator.html
Here's a press release from Eversheds, the public receiver of the bankruptcy estate of Talvivaara Sotkamo: http://www.eversheds.com/global/en/what/publications/shownews.page?News=en/finland/en/Future-of-Talvivaara-mine-decided This is all as clear as mud to me, so let me try to state what I understand - maybe someone else can give their understanding. We are shareholders in Talvivaara Mining Company Plc ("TMC"). TMC's relationship to the mine was through its subsidiary, Talvivaara Sotkamo ("TS"). TMC did not enter bankruptcy - TS entered bankruptcy. TS has now sold the mining operations to Terrafame, which is 100% owned by the Finnish government. I don't know how much Terrafame paid for the mining operations, or how much of that would go to TMC, if anything. I don't know what has happened to all the debts of TS. Either way, it seems to me that the shareholders of TMC still own TS, but TS - having sold its mining operations, is worthless. Whatever Terrafame paid TS for the mining operations has probably gone to pay off the creditors of TS. Although, having said that, I seem to remember that those creditors exchanged their debt for equity, no? In the end, I don't understand how this plays out for us, the shareholders of TMC. If I had to guess, I would say that we no longer own the mining operations in any form, so TS and TMC will be wrapped up, game over. Thoughts?
Thanks to our shares being suspended from trading, we're immune to the current downturn. Thanks Talvivaara.
We usually see these articles appearing in English a few days after the Finnish versions... HEre is the latest that I could find: http://yle.fi/uutiset/govt_steps_in_to_save_talvivaara_mining_operations/8209752 Note: "...Terrafame Mining Company will purchase the Sotkamo mining operation of the troubled Talvivaara Mining company." Unfortunately, this still leaves us (well, me at least) in the dark as to what shareholders of Talvivaara will see, if anything. It still seems as if the govt will purchase the main asset (the mine), Talvivaara will use the income to pay of debtors, and shareholders will be left with nothing. Those shareholders include the govt itself. In other words, we will see nothing. God I just wish they'd get it over with.
Another key part of that article, indicating that something might happen "next week": "The bailout plan will be presented to the Ministerial Committee on Economic Policy for consideration next week."
Although I still don't know what it means for the current investors, here's at least some new news... "Information obtained by Helsingin Sanomat suggests the Finnish Government is set to take full responsibility for the rescue of the beleaguered nickel mine of Talvivaara." Full article: http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business/13482-government-to-take-full-responsibility-for-talvivaara-bailout.html
So I finally bothered to read through the info about the shareholders' meeting to be held on June 25. The key info (and sorry, maybe someone has already said this) is that we will vote to convert the unsecured debt into equity, with a "yes" vote of 2/3rds required. That unsecured debt has a value of approx. Eur500.000.000, and the proposal is to convert it into 4.500.000.000 shares with a strike price of EUR0.1144 per share. So, that means that they're valuing the unburdened-by-debt company at the total of the to-be outstanding shares x 0.1144 per share, whatever that is. The only question after this takes place is whether they've valued the company correctly - the floating shares will again have the ability to sink or swim, or stay steady.... At 0.1144, that's basically my buy-in price.
Thanks Etsien - appreciate the coverage. I have said all along that I would be absolutely flabbergasted if the Finnish government allowed all the small Finnish investors to lose it all. I did say some time ago that I thought that the creditors would end up having to do a swap for equity - I just didn't know that it would involve this circuitous route of Audley, etc. Anyway, I'm glad that my investment here will continue in some form - apparently.
Well, I have to say that despite the gobbldygook of google translate (or perhaps because of it), I tend to see some burning embers in there that could bode well for current shareholders - not to make a packet, but to at least play some role in the new venture. Anyone else?