Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
Very true @SmlFry! Often I assume the flipside of the coin is self-evident, though it's certainly beneficial to spell it out to ensure clarity of communication! :D
@lynny the share you're talking about is MGC Pharma (LSE:MXC), and you've not accurately captured what I said about it. What I had said in regards to that share, was that I was thinking to myself that I could sell it (as it had climbed up by over 100% in a matter of hours) and it would likely drop down again for me to buy back more shares for the same value I sold at. And yes, this would've made me a hell of a lot more money, and in hindsight, I kinda wish I had followed my instinct at that time. HOWEVER, that is not what I deem INVESTING, that is more akin to TRADING. The distinction is small but significant.
Buying and selling over the short term is trading, and can yield some sweet returns if you know what you're doing, but with investing, the aim of the game is to buy and hold, due to the faith you have in the company. Trading carries far more risks, especially if you're not a wiz at it, so for me, my rationale for not selling all my MXC shares at the time when I thought to was because I believe they'll be valued at even more in the long term, and if I sell out, I can't be certain that they'll drop, nor how far they'll drop in value, and thus, might miss out on even larger gains...
More generally, everyone has a different strategy, which is fine, my point is merely that imo investing is better than trading, unless you are well read enough, or a professional trader. MY views are in line with what researchandhold is saying, and his frustrations that a lot of the ridiculous swings in AIM stock sp's is due to people who are impatient and trading madly, causing others to loose their nerve, rampers and derampers to flood the share chat forums, and a lot of generally needlessly unpleasant comments being written.
The thing to understand is that everyone has a different agenda, and what needs to be respected is that for many, there will be highly stressful times. What we should all be trying to take advantage of in these forums is our collective knowledge, rather than shunting opinions down, having productive, educational discussions about things. Sharing thoughts and viewpoints is valuable, even if you disagree with others, take time to listen and you might learn something. (note, this is a general comment now, not directed at anyone specifically)
@Hopeingmore I think I didn't clarify properly, I am aware you can buy nasdaq within an isa, what I meant was that I'm not aware of any tax benefits from investing on the nasdaq unless it's in an isa.
My point being in line with @ct10's comment, "is there any benefit to buying LBPS on NASDAQ over 4D on AIM"
The apr isn't what made it irresponsible lending, the fact that historically, the checks were not carried out properly is. Now nothing short of time-travel can change the fact that this has happened in the past, however, changes to how they conduct business in future, along with the SOA in redress of the costs incurred to those who were lent to irresponsibly goes a way to showing that Amigo will no longer be doing any irresponsible lending. And if they can do that to prove, or at least gain enough confidence that they will no longer lend irresponsibly, then they'll be alright.
Solid argument there @Mousekewtiz! It is a shame that all lenders get thrown into the same bag... I get that the rates on investments are high, but they have to be for it to be a viable business model. As I see it, sub-prime lenders like AMGO are NECESSARY if people are ever going to get a chance to build better credit scores... Of course there are many dirty ones which I think are highly unethical, but I firmly believe that Amigo are one of the ones that actually care about providing a service which is of benefit to their customers, not just making off with as much money as they can and tieing people into lifelong servitude to them...
And yeah, I'm definitely thankful for the opportunity that this situation has provided me, though do seriously feel for everyone who was invested at a much higher sp...
I would be shocked if the judges hadn't investigated the situation thoroughly... And judges must respect will of the people etc., I think even without any investigation on behalf of the judge, Amigo have a very strong case....
Ay, too true @SmlFry!
Was kicking myself after I decided not to sell my position for 2.16X my initial investment when I was looking at the sp at 9.3p... but hey, the cost of exiting and not being able to re-enter at exit price was greater than the risk of not exiting at all.
Hindsight is always 20/20 though!
One of the most sounds pieces of investing advice, from Warren Buffet: Don't even think about buying a company for 10 minutes unless you're willing to hold it for 10 years.
@lynny, I get your frustrations, but your reasoning is flawed. If you're looking to get rich quick, and can't afford to hold a stock for 5-10 years, then you ought to look into specialising in short term trading. To me, that is not INVESTING. The benefits to holding long term is that you're less exposed to short-term volatility, you get to profit from compound appreciation, and depending on the company you've bought, you also get a pretty tasty dividend paid out.
Small-caps are very unpredictable, so when you['re investing in them, do as much research as possible, so you understand the risks and potential thoroughly. If you can't afford to sit on your investment a few years, then that says to me you can't afford to loose that investment. And one of the principle rules of investing, is NEVER put risk on more than you can afford to loose.
My advice would be to re-think your investing strategy to something more suitable to your financial situation.
Personally, I think 4D is a steal at the price I bought in at, which was 132p, so yeah, my investment is currently down quit painfully, but given what this company have in the pipeline, and based on my research, I am confident this is peanuts compared to what it will be worth in a few years.
Now, for me, I'm investing only my savings, so my investing strategy is based around building a strong portfolio over the next few years, whilst I live as cheaply as possible, so that in a few years time, I will have my savings generating me cash in the background, and I'll be able to live very comfortably on what I earn. So I am very happy to sit on my investments and just wait.
GL
@Soundsrisky I can't think of any benefits of doing such, unless there are some tax benefits I'm not aware of, but to my knowledge you only get tax benefits for investing from an ISA and on AIM, not for investing in a foreign country...
Would be interested to know if there are some benefits to buying LBPS on NASDAQ over 4D on AIm...
Good questions Cheftrader, I am unaware of such a list/info... HOWEVER, personally, I wouldn't bother with anything on Trustpilot. That site is riddled with so many fake posters, and people paid to post comments to make something appear a certain way.... For example, have a read of some of the reviews on there for coinbase - loads claiming it to be span and promoting external scammers, or their reviews for Mayfair, loads claiming it to be legit although it's a COMPLETE scam company.
I've also read a lot of opinions in this share chat on the matter; there definitely is some concern that this might be the case, but I see much more consensus and stronger argument for this not being the case.
Firstly: think of the creditor base, those with genuine claims are most likely in really not great financial positions that they probably cannot afford to vote no out of spite.
Secondly: Amigo opened the creditor base to SO MANY MORE PEOPLE, who had no greivances, and are basically being offered money for simply ticking a box and giving a signiture.
Thirdly: whilst sure, there are probably a fair few with serious greivances, given the number of people that amigo opened it up to, they will most likely form a minority - think of a normal mathematical distribution, those with serious greivances will be at the far end of the distribution.
Fourth: consider the rate of customer complaints. Sure, the company saw a fair few more than normal due to covied, but the number only dramatically increased when they started giving more details, saying that any customer, past or present with valid complaints can submit a complaint. Brilliant move on Amigo's part, as the pot for mony isn't increasing, ie. AMIGO isn't having to pay any more, but they've just gained a LOT of advocates for the SOA because of how many would get money for nothing.
Finally, consider who want's this failing. Very few actually want Amigo to go under, the most significant of which are simply Amigo's competition, who may do all they might to make it look like loads of people will vote no, but really have zero power over the proceedings. Even the FOS stands to gain more from this going through.
I urge you to DYOR, and have a browse through some of the other threads in this chat which go into more detailed and thorough explanations of my summation of what I've read on the matter. (I would site them, but I read them but don't know them off the top of my head. They are from within the last 48hours or so if you do want to try sifting through them).
Yeah, and for a first company in your portfolio, this is definitely a great pick imo!
I agree with @nanjan, one of the hardest things to do is hold it out when shares are down, but ALWAYS remember: you've not made a loss until you've SOLD your shares for less than the price you bought them at!
Having done my DD, I think there's a very bright future ahead for this company!
GLA!
not to mention all the options they issued to the stakeholders who helped get them onto the LSE.... imo its likely those lot cashing out at huge profit in comparison to what they were promised....
MXC are a great company, I've got a good £7.5k in shares, average price at 4.31p, imo the sp is going to go much higher in the long run, so just keep holding, or top up now whilst it's cheap if you have the spare dosh...
Spot on FrankyS! Cold logic and mathematics mate! Populations typically have normal distributions, so it would be reasonable to assume based on that alone, without any of the reasoning you factored in to your 'model' that there would only be a bare minimum who are truly aggrieved, and that the majority would have some level of grievance but not enough to do much about it, until now where they've been offered money for very little effort.
Disappointing comment from Bee earlier about council housing.... sweeping generalisations like that, especially ones which are dismissive of our customer base, do not help us build a reasonable picture of the stakeholder interests.... granted, it's likely a lot of them are council housed etc. and thus likely not got a brilliant education, the nature of the comment was not constructive, came off as more of an insult than anything to help form a balanced opinion...
Been holding AMGO for a while now, just topped up with 18317 shares at 14.67p.... substantially higher than my initial purchase at the 6.43 mark, but still, mage great value for money imo!
GLA!
Cheers guys!
Yeah, never fun seeing the money go down, but as long as you don't cash out on a loss, you're still god ay!
Yeah, it's very tempting to respond to it, for eg. I purchased a good 7.5k worth of MGC Pharma shares when they were at 4.31p, and was watching them rise up to 9.3p the other day, thinking damn, it might be worth cashing out and consolidating that earning, there's bound to be a market correction... and ofc there was, but I decided screw it, I'm also a intermediate/long-term holder, and not confident enough to make the call to cash out when it could potentially keep rising and not give me a cheaper entry point.... All things we learn along the way hey, and just because one thing doe, doesn't mean that everything will follow the same pattern.... deffo agree best method is along lines of Warren Buffet - find a great company that you understand, buy it on discount and hold for a good 10 years or so...
Hey PhilGekko and Sangijuelas1, great conversation going here, nice to read something which actually adds value to this share chat!
It's interesting seeing folks such as yourselves not being phased at all by the P&D...
I'm relatively new to the investing game myself, been researching it for a couple of years now and started trying my hand at it last august, starting with shares in RDSB, 4D were my second buy, in with 3776 shares at 132p, which was shortly after they first came up on my radar.... I think they're immense value for money, even at current prices... Watching the recent waves I admittedly have considered trying to catch some, and maximise on my investment, but I feel that in the long run there is so much potential growth, that it's simply not worth trying to time those truncations... Too easy to sell out at a point where the sp is going up and won't come back down to.... And as I'm not a day-trader, I don't have the expertise to do that with great confidence...
I certainly see the valuation of 4D increasing, given their pipeline of products, and diverse applications for them. Very reassuring to see you guys supporting similar views!
I wish I had the funds to be able to join the balls of steel group! Currently holding about 15,000 shares, looking to top up with another 20,000 or so...
Hats off to you Vinson! Cheers for the effort you put into this list!
Oh, but PB49, that would be the sensible thing to do... At the same time it would've meant the FOS couldn't have milked the situation for as much cash from AMGO as possible... Sensibility is a very rare virtue in this world, especially when there's potential to make disgraceful amounts of money....
Such a valid point GosiaS! People are given so many free bailouts and handouts, how can we expect them to learn anything from their mistakes?!? The country needs companies like amigo, who have a customer focused business model. What Gary is constantly talking about is helping people build their credit score. That's not going to happen without companies like amigo, and certaily none of the other sub-prime lenders out there make it anywhere near as cheap to do as Amigo...
But yes, Adults are ADULTS, the will behave like children until forced to do otherwise. And tbf, we can't blame all the greedy ****s who are filing complains, because if you can get a handout if you're in that sorta financial situation, you'd be a moron not to try. This is ABSOLUTELY on the FCA and FOS. Not entirely so, obviously amigo should've been conducting much more thorough checks in the past, but from this point, FCA and FOS do need to start making the adults learn how to be responsible with money and credit etc., rather than stepping in on issues where people simply no longer want to be responsible for their loans....
Businesses like AMGO survive on the high interest they charge, because of the rate and likelyihood of defaults that they have. And Amigo charge the lowest rate for sub-prime lenders by an absolute landslide, so what they do I don't think is unreasonable or unethical, imo...