Member Info for Kheldar

Can’t see the BOD being in cahoots with UMMC. I think people are forgetting if UMMC get their hands on the assets then Strukov with30% holding will be the bigger loser - can’t see that happening. My worry is Strukov May buy it all and sai ciao to the shareholders

Thanks CWWX - I’ll try there

Can you read my original post on this and let me know if you can help.

@Fairy1 - this is aim, anything can happen. Just put them away, enjoy the weather and see what happens in coming months / year.

Hi All,

@Nathan - you can add my 436000 shares to your list. Wove - seen the large amounts others have and some long term holders. Hope you guys get your money back.

I emailed Max at POG to ask him if the head of UMMC getting blacklisted changes anything. I've told him to forward my query to the administrators (and cc me in) if he isn't able to answer. I will let you all know if I hear anything back.

The problem as I see it is the our government has signed up to these sanctions and have no intentions of backing down irrespective of the damage to the economy - high energy costs being an example. However, it won't just be UK shareholders who will lose out. There must be a lot of Russian private investors who will lose out as well.

The Russian government have a website where Russian nationals can email Putin directly with any grievances - a response is sent within 3-5 days. IMHO this would be a more productive avenue if we can find a private Russian investor.

Hi Professor1 - will do later today. At work at the moment.

It’s UMMC who had called in the debt so technically POG could have paid them, then them paying gbp is a different matter.

Now that the head of ummc is sanctioned surely POG can’t pay and debt can’t be called in. Anyone got administrators email to check with them? I’ve got maxs email but I guess we can’t contact him now

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/jul/19/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-putin-and-erdogan-to-meet-us-weaponry-stabilising-frontlines-ukraine-military-chief-says

The European Union is set to add Russia’s biggest bank Sberbank and the head of giant zinc and copper firm UMMC to its black list of individuals and companies accused of supporting Moscow…

So ummc can’t call in their debt now surely lol

Last week he got rid of 5 ambassadors including those assigned to Germany and India.

This week he is getting rid of the head of security chief and top prosecutor - accusing some in the organisation of treason.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62202078

I wonder if some in Ukraine are asking him to negotiate. I hope so as it will help POG but also the Russians seem intent on blowing up as infrastructure as possible. You can’t win against such carnage without taking heavy casualties (men, women and children). Even a win against such adversaries will feel like a loss if you are going to lose a generation. Best to negotiate and then deal with whoever comes after putin.

The west needs to be careful at the moment the dollar is the world currently for trading, if this carries on I thi no o China and India will benefit and poorer countries may end up going with them

LewisMJ - You are not invested in POG, yet all your 70 + comments are on POG. It's Saturday mate, sun is out , go spend some time with your family. Honestly, you don't need to worry about us invested here. If this does go tits up it is what it is. We still have health and family only less wealth :-) . If I had to do it again I would still prefer same order.

Yes, most still invested will lose money, me included but to come here and repeat over and over "I told you so" is not a good look. What is the point of you being here, it's not as if people can sell and get out. If your parents read some of your comments, I think they would be embarrassed that they brought such a cretin into this world.

Hopefully, you will take this the right way and **** off.

POG is sold off on the cheap and we find the sanctions on GBP executives were not legal.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-14/eu-mulls-lifting-sanctions-on-some-russians-over-legal-concerns

Big sell around 2.75 but it's more than holding. Could see ask of more than 3p soon....

Come on n4p....

Very positive 3p paid … could be a very good day today. Hopefully finish top of the risers board… long overdue

There seems to be so much confusion here.

The Directors have gone to high court to request that the company goes into Administration. The reason will be that the creditors are asking for their money and the company does not have the means to pay. The high court will give permission for the company to go into administration, creditors can object but as long as the company can show that there is realistic steps they can take to try to pay the creditors the permission will be given.

What assets and the price they are sold at will be decided by the appointed Administrators after they have carried out an independent audit. POG is a parent company with assets in subsidiary companies within the group. We are in the hands of the administrators they can buy us time but at most this is 12 months. If the BOD are in bed with the buyers then we are f****d as they will sell the subsidiary companies and pay off the creditors. If you look at the assets and liabilities in the rns for the company and the group - the liabilities sit with the company. They can sell the subsidiary companies to clear the money owed and leave the PLC company with nothing for shareholders.

Whilst we are in administration the creditors can't ask for any money and have to wait until the Administrators have completed their assessment. Our only hope is the BOD have done this because they are looking out for the shareholders.

As I've said before if we pick a fight with the government about the sanctions we will lose. Even though there will be sympathy people are too afraid to say anything in case they are accused of being Russian appeasers.

I think a better approach will be to start a change.org petition asking the powers that be to ensure the POG administratrators and bods get fair value for the company based on the assets and liabilities. This crap about the assets being illiquid is being used to fleece the shareholders.

I leave you guys to decide but I think we need a competent person to write the change.org petition and get everyone you know to get it signed. People who are not in POG will sign if they see that UK citizens are getting fleeced by Russian oligarchs.

Pog is a profitable company so the only employees at risk are BOD. Someone will buy POG, the only question is if the shareholders will get anything.

I’m still a believer - let’s see what happens.

Thanks Stonefold for posting.

The wolves are at the door. I hope the company is able to get permission from court to go into administration otherwise I think it is game over.

Going into administration will buy us time and I think we should all canvas our MOs to ensure fair value is paid for the company.

I agree Lawrence the government has not really thought through on the sanctions and companies like POG are paying the price. Unfortunately, sanctions is an acceptable tool to deter bad actors and the government will argue it has been done in the best interest of the nation and at that point no court will go against them.

I wouldn't argue against the sanctions, instead I think we should be pushing our MPs and government ministers to press on the BOD and administrators to ensure we get fair value for our assets. This is the only way I see us coming out with anything. Going into administration has bought us time so let's see what happens.

@Ttaylor - sorry, just seen your messages now. The only way POG is coming out of administration/suspension is if it is bought out or the sanctions have been lifted. If it is bought out the only question is do shareholders get anything.

"Theoretically" speaking shareholders should be left with $673m which equates to 14p a share. The problem is liabilities are due immediately and he is saying it will take time to sell the assets. At the moment POG have applied for a court hearing to go into administration. More than likely they should get it which should at least keep the wolves away from the door or force the suitors to make a more acceptable offer. You are right my worry is they may cover the bondholders and leave the shareholders with nothing.

The administrators are duty bound to get the best deal possible on the sale. OPUS is a UK company and I can't see how they could justify writing off the whole $673m to wipe out the shareholders.

Companies can stay in administration for typically up to 12 month during which time no creditors can come calling. If there are suitors they will need to cough up the money during administration to get it on the cheap or hopefully the stupid war will end and sanctions lifted before we come out of administration and the company survives.

You can call me crazy but I think we still have a chance albeit slim.

Evening Poggers,

I didn't fully understand the assets and liabilities in the RNS so wrote to Max at POG today. Below is my email with Max's response in square brackets. It's the first time I have emailed and I'm impressed that they have responded on same day.

Have a read and let me know what you think.

Good morning Max,

I am a POG shareholder and like many other shareholders it was disappointing to see yesterdays RNS. I appreciate this has been driven by the current situation and so accept it is something out of the company's control. I have a query about the numbers and would be grateful if you can clarify.

As far as I can tell the company owes to GBP and Bondholders:

GBP - $201m
Bonds and notes - $337m

This is $538m.

[MAX:
?Term loan is $201m (assigned to UMMC Invest) + revolving credit facility of c.$87m (assigned to Nordic LLC).
Bonds: Eurobond with $304m outstanding, convertible bond with $33m outstanding. ]

In the RNS the assets and liabilities have been broken down by 'Company and Group as follows:

Company: Assets: -$1,619m, Liabilities: $1,703m net A/L : $84m
Group : Assets: -$1,675m, Liabilities: $1,002m net A/L : $673m

If the whole group was liquidated as per book value, the shareholders will be left with $673m. I'm not understanding why in the previous and current RNS you state that shareholders will be left with nothing. Please can you elaborate. Is it you think that we may not get book value under the circumstances?

[MAX:
Most of the Group’s liabilities are due for immediate repayment, whereas assets are far less liquid. And the Group cannot be liquidated at once, so in a way it is a theoretical exercise]

My other query is around liabilities. How can the Company liabilities be $1,703m but yet the group Liabilities be $1,002. It seems to me you are saying there are company specific liabilities which the group are not responsible for. Please can you confirm what the liabilities are?

[MAX: The difference is due to intragroup liabilities, which is a bit complex but in a nutshell, the Company owes a lot to the other Group companies which is netted off at Group level]

@professor1 - I’m not querying the assets, it’s the liabilities. I can’t understand how liabilities for group can be lower