Member Info for Inbrackets

You have said previously that you like to rely on source material and have encouraged people to do the same. Have you actually checked in this instance?. You, in your position of judge and jury, may not see any reason why they did not release their EIA submission but have you actually checked what the position is as far as Portuguese law or the T&C of the application process? It’s not whether they feel confident enough, it’s whether they can or whether releasing it prior to APA issuing the Notice of Conformity would jeopardise the process they were following. That is the point that needs confirmation and that so far you have failed to address. Until you can point the source to back up your assertions, inferences or insinuations of what you feel could have or should have happened, they really cannot and should not be considered as being valid. If you can, then that would become a point, good or bad, right or wrong, to be discussed. As you say the legal challenge is against APA and they would need to answer for whatever they are accused of, and the extension is perhaps a result of any representations made. I think the extra time to understand the EIA is fundamentally good news.

I would also be grateful if you could untwist and explain your comment regards SAV ‘not being their own masters but have obligations to their shareholders’. Please quote from this exchange of posts where this has been said as I can’t see any reference to any obligation to shareholders. I have often said the SAV has no real control of its diary at present being reliant on other parties be it the government, government bodies or other downstream activities but that has nothing to do with this topic.

The obligations as far as the EIA is concerned are detailed by APA as this is the process they must follow, whatever that may be.

If they make promises or outline commitments, then their obligations are to whoever or whatever grouping those assurances have been given and they would no doubt be held to account for any breaches.

We can pick this up if need be once you have shown that SAV had the right to release the information they submitted to APA without any implications to the process (that is actually one obligation that SAV did have to shareholders ie to do things properly), if not, well, there would not be much point.

I think you are twisting words to imply they did the minimum and they could have gone further by releasing the information to the wider population.

I go back to my original question earlier this morning, can you please direct us to the source that tells you that they could actually release it before APA had issued the Notice of Conformity as you seemed to miss this in your original response. I am sure you wouldn’t want the company to do something that contravened their obligations and I am sure that the community will also know that.

As I said, SAV submitted the EIA to the appropriate authority and dealt with any requests that were made of it by that authority. It was not up to SAV to release the document as the process required APA to issue the Notice of Conformity and for them to release the EIA. SAV were under an obligation, to the relevant Portuguese authorities and they take their obligations seriously.

Likewise they will take their responsibilities and commitments seriously should matters progress.

SAV will have to be part of the community for some years to come and needs the community and its people to provide goods, services and crucially, workforce. It’s not lip service (or subsidised).

More widely, if Galp and Northvolt do prove to be the partners, both have been recognised for their understanding and need to work with their wider community as their own customers (aside from any regulators) are progressively looking for decent and more ethically sourced products to buy. After all, they are the people that make up the communities that companies like SAV need to employ or supply goods and services. SAV will not be a weak link in that chain.

JL, I understood that the EIA was released once APA issued the Notice of Conformity. Can you direct us to the source that says it was up to SAV and that they could release it earlier. Many thanks in advance.

I welcome the extra time afforded to the process as the EIA needs to stand or fall on its merits, with all parties being able to make a proper assessment and feel that things have not been improperly curtailed to force a result.

In answer to your point though, the House of Commons was only given about 24 hours to vote on the Brexit Bill, rightly or wrongly and that has and will have far greater impact on a much wider population, and so far whilst it may have been difficult to get to Dover at times, no one has threatened to block the roads.

The communication person is to interface with the Portuguese and Boticas at the local centre.

We used to have a guy (can’t remember name) and he was a good presenter but it was when things were heading south 2/3 years ago and purse strings we’re definitely being drawn in, so unfortunately but rightly, his services also went by the board. People can’t complain of dare I say, making do, if they would otherwise complain about costs and placing. Priorities?

I read the article as well. When I read about about the 25 crossbred cows it triggered comparison with parts of an article in today’s Daily Telegraph discussing the possible FTA with Australia and the impact on beef imports.

Bearing in mind I am looking across the fields of one of my neighbours full of their cattle, and understanding that they know each of their herd’s individual personalities and foibles, it always seems rather impersonal to generically call them beef imports, however, ultimately livestock is food. As the article points out:

“ Peter Hardwick, a trade policy adviser at BMPA, points out that you can fill a shipping container with a range of cuts from just 60 animals. However, the same container could hold boneless sirloins from 1,000 animals or fillet steaks from 3,000. In this way a small volume of imported meat could result in a disproportionately large effect on British farmers.”

I am just looking to put it into perspective - one container of food - barely enough to provide a days supply of meat for a small city. Alternatively, a small proportion of the land supplying a significant proportion of the lithium needed to enable cleaner air progressively, year on year, across the whole of Portugal and Europe.

I really struggle to see the relative merits, and even more so when the levels of subsidy are detailed.

I meant to mention that I went to the mine with a group of kids to watch a blast. After a lecture on Health and Safety, being kitted out with hard hats and hi viz tops, we went out on to site to look at the base of the opencast mine, the huge dumper trucks, the crushing plant and processing units, hoppers and wagon filling / weighing scales before moving to the top side of the mine to watch the explosives being fed into the small drill holes. The site manager explained all the processes and the requirements he needed to go through before the warning sirens went and the explosion went off. Fascinating day for all the kids and parents that went an I would hope that SAV do similar.

Strikes me this was a useful day out to help explain to my boys the underlying need for mining and efficient use of available resources. I also like them to understand where their food comes from and how this needs to be treated properly and not wasted. They know that meat does not come from polystyrene containers wrapped in cling film, and the work and hardship that Lake District hill farmers live with in all weathers, and their empathy for their stock and the land they live with.

It’s all a joint effort, just different parts of the whole.

I don’t live anywhere near an airport, a bit too hilly. However there are mines for all manner of necessary items dotted around both within and in between National Park boundaries - slate for roofing, kitchens etc or aggregates for roads and railways etc. Needs change over time (not many lead mines these days) whilst demand for tin would apparently be growing once again, and now lithium is needed in greater quantities and obviously it would change the existing accustomed balance of local mining for feldspar etc around Barroso.

I know one local mine that is about a mile away from the village, that blasts, crushes and transports by truck (through the village). The blasts are heard quite faintly ( probably less loud than the warning hooter ). The crusher and processing noises are minimal and not an issue as you really would need to be on site. Meanwhile even the wagons are an accepted part of life going through the village (not something that will happen in Portugal).

Meanwhile, I arranged with another local mine (6 miles away) to donate more than 200mt of stuff to make a new road to a local rugby club. Very helpful in all manner of things as part of their local community program. Community engagement as a concept is hardly new, and I am sure that it will be genuinely useful for all manner of local needs, for the wider benefit of all.

There was always going to be people, resident or otherwise, who would rather things stayed unchanged despite naturally changing priorities and needs and without recognising the relatively short term nature of the process and the near and longer term benefits with a responsible (and verifiable) modern mining partner that understands the words communal benefit.

Yep. OEMs CO2 audit trail will be looking for the Holy Grail of ideally lower than neutral. Why would they want guilt by association with other products their suppliers are involved in.

I doubt that the benefit gained from having the mine will lead to a reduction in grant levels elsewhere, sounds like a Portuguese version of Universal Credit.

Even if it was, it would seem to make out that this rural idyll some obviously want to be captured forever is only there based on other grants being paid by others. Is that a ‘fairness’ that should not be contributed to for the wider benefit of those living elsewhere but paying for it. Maybe they should be demonstrating in favour.

Lucker continues to do the graft.

https://eco.sapo.pt/2021/05/14/depoois-da-savannah-galp-esta-a-procura-de-novos-parceiros-para-o-negocio-do-litio/

More tidbits to help feed the understanding of what is being developed.

Fpvone, not sure I quite agree with you as I understand the underlying reactions can make it be more comparable with a technical speciality chemical than a straightforward commodity element. It also can degrade over time. Generalist manufacturing maybe happy with a wider spec provided for by generalist producers. Higher requirements will have tighter specs but will have to pay a premium.

I seem to remember him saying that he was looking to take some time out as he was just tired of the silence as these processes grind on endlessly. Unless much mistaken, am pretty sure that he continues to hold but has just dropped the role of Chief Cheerleader for the time being. As and when, he may pick up his Pom poms again.

Don’t forget that whilst the reporters are pretty good at information mining, it looks like they are in arrears, so things will have moved on.

NV were not looking to turn things into a playground competition but are looking to bed in long term quality supply for their production lines. Personally, I would struggle to see the need for them to declare their hand until the formal documents confirming SAVs ability to deliver are in hand. DA did say the other day that they were in process of longer term negotiations - why would Galp bother if the nearer term DD was not accepted.

I had meant to add, this one courtesy of researcher extraordinaire, lucker. Big hat tip.

https://eco.sapo.pt/2021/05/13/governo-e-aicep-mediaram-negociacoes-da-galp-com-suecos-da-northvolt-para-o-litio/

Surprised that this very interesting nugget hasn’t been posted.
Some dots being joined behind the silence.

Elhorno, if by that you mean that the feared difficulties did not materialise, I would agree at present, though willwant to see more detail. Having seen a screen print of the number or participants and followers, the numbers were rather woefully low. Our local parish council had a larger %involvement when discussing the proposal for 4 street lights and ‘road signage’ (to help delivery drivers as locals knowalready).

As commentated elsewhere “ For a population in the town of about 2800 or the district around 5500, that doesn’t seem to be a mass uprising and the vocal minority who are moved to say something looked like they struggled to mobilise even the edges of the silent majority.

The 1 or 2% may have their points to make but that doesn’t entitle them to impose their opinions.“

They are also supporting Infinity which is currently in limbo, awaiting clarification. Just saying.

Three weeks to go to the end of the public consultation so let us hope tomorrow’s 3hour session does help all parties come to a better understanding if there is discord.

The ‘foreign interests’ are not of course the Galician NGO bringing its procedural spanner into the Portuguese spokes.

I remain somewhat bemused by the use of NGO to describe outfits, often in their own self description. Our local tiddlywinks society is an NGO but doesn’t feel the need to self promote its closeness and relevance to the corridors and ear of the powerful with a reference to Government, even if prefixed with Non.

Hopefully it will be dealt with swiftly with as much courtesy as it deserves but not wrap everything in treacle. Nothing to refute on content or fact to date, just procedure.