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so we have to accept your interpretation of the Gold standard as the standard ...

Because you have a better idea of what constitutes a Gold standard ....

Ruck and his alternative view .......

is the answer 9 or 10

After Bermuda defended your "never see the light of day posts" knowlesi .... is this how you play reciprocal support

case rested

well Oxford have declared its all over ..........

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/16/uk-may-already-have-enough-herd-immunity-prevent-second-coronavirus/

Bermuda ... it comes across as a Tag team ...

Ruck fails you step in

Ivy fails you step in

You fail ivy steps in etc etc

Post on your own merit ... and stop trying to save Poor posts ... or dim posters ...

honestly mate you credibility will rise substantially if we eliminate petty nit picking

look last night ..........

Injecting the virus .. it makes me think !!!! ... i then discovered how they expose the Covid Virus to primates

now if it was Malaria ... you would inject after all that is exactly how the blood suckers infect you ...

a discussion ... ends in "sensible reasoning"

but to try and reason ... "gold standard" could go anywhere

Bermuda ......... rather playing Tag Team posting with Ivy and Ruck ...

why don't you question the Posts of Ivy and Ruck

you could have corrected Ivy last night ........... why didn't you ?

you could have posted on the route Oxford vaccines takes to get an immune response ...

why didn't you ... ?

the list goes on and on and On ............. yet your critical of ............ "my choice of words"

i was replying to this post ............. why did you NOT reply to this post ???? if you feel YOU are capable of presenting complex science .. what are you scared of ?

RayPointer

Posts: 2,228

Price: 5.30

No Opinion

T Cells in antibody productionThu 23:40
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK27142/

This is an interesting book about the role of T Cells in antibody production.

Now an interesting question about the Oxford vaccine.
Does it activate T Cells solely for the production of antibodies?
Alternatively, can it activate T Cells for targets other than that of the neutralising antibodies?

Ruck was described as Dim the other day .......... why don't you challenge that ? or do you agree with them ?

my choice of words ................ ?

you mean Ruck trying to twist my choice of words by adding others ?

really ?

cancer does not spread person to person .............. the reason why small pox was eradicated was because they isolated it and vaccinated the population at the center of the infection not the entire population .. of the planet

you are adding information again ..................

untreated Ebola

Ebola virus disease - World Health Organizationwww.who.int › Newsroom › Fact sheets › Detail
10 Feb 2020 - The average EVD case fatality rate is around 50%

History of Smallpox | Smallpox | CDCwww.cdc.gov › smallpox › history › history
Smallpox was a devastating disease. On average, 3 out of every 10 people who got it died. Those who survived were usually left with scars, which were sometimes .

same again ........... if left untreated ... what is the death rate of cancer ?

are virus and cancer different .......... Yes ...

however the immune system is not .... the common part is the "target" antigen ..

you then add a word

Testing ....

who is talking about Trial design ....... ? you should have started a new thread

read the post .......... you take something i have not said ... then run with it

ebola and smallpox have recovery rates ........... without a vaccine

how many have recovery rates in cancer without treatment ?

https://evmedreview.com/evidence-for-evolution-in-human-immune-systems/

Cancer is the "Gold" standard for vaccines ....................

why .......... Ebola ... Small Pox ... are probably the most dangerous Virus ........... but people survive it , otherwise small pox would have wiped out the entire human population

left untreated how many with cancer would survive ?

Ray This is the difference
obviously i don't have the fine detail because Oxford don't describe the route to market, because of that the oxford vaccine probably prompts an indirect immune response .. basically they are induce a cell by infecting it with a virus to replicate the spike Protein, so multiple infected cells will start secreting the "spike protein" from then on the natural immune response takes over ... but only against the spike. So if they have built it correctly it should mimic the outside spikes on the virus so be taken up by the various APC involved ...i have found no evidence so far that the virus can infect a Dendritic cell allowing it to display MHC 1 and 11

Scancell directly and indirectly targets the Dendritic cell .. and the patented way it does this ...

a huge difference

as i posted earlier Ivy ... to get an antibody response you have to generate T cells ... its not an addition ...

""The primary immune response of the body to antigen occurs on the first occasion it is encountered. ... The humoral response, mediated by B cells with the help of T cells, produces high-affinity and antigen-specific antibodies""

In work conducted in the lab of Chuan Qin, Peking Union Medical College, Beijing, China, six macaques were exposed to SARS-CoV-2. Following infection, the animals developed mild-to-moderate illness, including pneumonia and evidence of active infection in their respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts. Twenty-eight days later, when the macaques had cleared the infection and started recovering, four animals were re-exposed to the same strain of SARS-CoV-2. The other two served as controls, with researchers monitoring their continued recovery.

note the word exposed ...

another one

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/14/study-in-primates-finds-acquired-immunity-prevents-covid-19-reinfections/

Methods: Three 3-5 years old and two 15 years old rhesus macaques were intratracheally infected with SARS-CoV-2, and then analyzed by clinical signs, viral replication, chest X-ray, histopathological changes and immune response.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32318665/

Bermuda ... i would have thought natural infection .. considering a direct injection of the virus in blood could cause clotting and strokes as per late stage Covid patients .. but its only my opinion...

Ivy
"""Based purely on my understanding of the theory I would expect a better response from the SCLP Vax especially in the specific T and helper cell response as it targets the nucleo capsid protein in a more potent way than the Oxford ChAd Vax.""

Oxfords Vaccine only targets the spike Glycoprotein only

just a point ... i do not think any one would be "Injected" with live virus .. that would not replicate a natural infection ...

i do .......... yes he makes it up as he goes ..