Member Info for ICL1960

Sold some today to use some of the capital gains allowance.

Obviously, I would love to buy back next day, having banked the gains.
Exactly what the HMRC does not want me to do,
The 30 day rule is just so annoying.

Sold some stuff in the S&S ISA to make room to buy some SAR back.
Would love a retrace, so I can buy back cheaper.

If it really zooms off, it's not necessarily unmanageable.

When it's actively traded, the spread is narrow, so it's possible to sell in a dealing account, and buy back in the S&S ISA straightway.
This does mean that you need to have some cash ready in the S&S ISA to take over the position.

There is an interesting little tax avoidance ruse I have been musing.

Mary and Joseph have a dealing account each.

Joseph bought 1 million shares of SAR at 1p, for £10,000
Joseph sells 1 million shares at 2.3p today, and gets £23,000 back, realising a capital gains of £13,000, just above the tax free CGT allowance of £12,300, for 2020/21.

Mary buys 1 million shares of SAR at 2.4p, which costs £24,000. She needs her own money.
The SAR share price goes up, to say 3.6p, so she sells 1 million shares at £36,000, making £12,000, just inside the tax free allowance.

Joseph now buys 1 million shares at 3.7p, for £37,000, to take over the position.

Mary, darling, I wan to talk to your about how to save some tax.
NOT NOW, Joseph, I'm having a BABY!

Text limit, I'm sure.

The idea is to use HSBC's own money to set it up.
Obviously I can move money from elsewhere to do this, but that wouldn't be paying HSBC back for refusing to lend me money.

HSBC is very happy to give me an overdraft facility, until I actually ask for it.

A five year fixed deposit was maturing after April 6th, but that's too late to pay into an ISA for the prior tax year.
I asked for an overdraft for £20k, making it clear that it will be paid back in days, from the maturing deposit.
The call centre wanted to know what I needed it for, so I said it's for the ISA.
She asked somebody, and they came back with they do not lend money for investment purposes.

If I had said I wanted to buy an Aston Martin, so I can pick up loose women and get a room at the Dorchester, they would have been all over me.

I now want to to do the following if at all possible.

Borrow £50k from HSBC.

Buy HSBA shares at ~£4, sell half of the shares at £8.
This gives £50k in cash, which pays back the £50k loan.

This leaves £50k worth of shares, with no money down.
Move them into an S&S ISA over time.

The nitty gritty can be annoying, like Capital Gains Tax when I sell the shares, so it's not actually £50k cash to pay back the loan. This suggests I need to borrow more. There is an alternative, though.

Tax Year One
===========

Borrow £50k, put £20k into the ISA.
Buy £20k worth of HSBA inside the ISA, at ~£4, which is 5,000 shares.
The remainder £30k buys HSBA in a dealing account, at £4, so 7,500 shares.

Tax Year Two
===========

Obviously, bed and ISA another £20k.
Say the SP has gone up to £6.
Sell 3,300 shares for £19,800, so the Capital Gains is £6,600 = £19,800 - £13,200: i.e. below the CGT threshold.
Obviously you would move £20k into the S&S ISA just to use up the allowance.
Buy 3,300 shares of HSBA inside the ISA.
There are now 4,200 shares remaining outside the ISA,
and 8,300 shares inside the ISA.

There is every chance that HSBA is now paying dividend, defraying the interest charge somewhat.

Tax Year Three
============

Bed and ISA more shares, up to £20k.
Let us say the SP is now £7.
Sell 2,800 shares, for £19,600. Capital Gains is £8,400 = £19,600 - £11,200, lower than the CGT threshold.
Obviously you would move £20k into the S&S ISA just to use up the allowance.
Buy 2,800 shares of HSBA inside the ISA.
There are now 1,400 shares remaining outside the ISA,
and 11,100 shares inside the ISA.

Tax Year Four
============

Let us say it gets to £8, so we sell the 1,400 shares for 11,200.
Capital Gains is £5,600 = £11,200 - £5,600, lower than the CGT threshold.

To pay back the £50k loan, I can sell some of the 11,100 shares inside the ISA, but it is better to leave them in there, getting tax free dividend.

Forever after
===========

Just to be neat and tidy, I would leave 10,000 shares of HSBA in the S&S ISA.
Historically, HSBA was paying US$0.51, or 51cents a year, which is 38p a year.
10,000 shares would pay £3,800 a year. Tax FREE inside an ISA.
Assuming a share price of £8, that is 4.75% = 0.38 / 8

Obviously, the £50k has to be paid back.
Once that is d

Modern cows have been bred to lactate, and they need to be milked daily.
If not, they experience pain in their udder and teat.

Lloyds is screaming, milk me, MILK ME.

It's downright cruel not to pay dividend.
Cash cows have feelings, too.

Muad'Dib: "God created Arrakis to train the faithful"

The shortages of imported food, Evian water and lack of SONY PS5s will make the UK the most lean and mean fighting machine. Recycle your foeces, don't waste the water. Having learned to do without the non-essentials, we will conquer the planet through our indomitable Will. Atomics!

All it takes is for a no tariff regime to switch to 20% import tariff.

Rishi Sunak really needs Andrew Bailey to bury his head in the sand.
If he raises the BOE interest rate, the only way to service the National Debt is to sell all the grand mothers.

The idea is, it reduces the state pension burden, and the NHS old age care costs.
Nobody will BUY the grand mothers, so you have to create some paperwork that makes it LOOK like we sold them, when in fact you turn them into fertilisers. The 40% IHT on their estate helps, as well.

Having witnessed what a control freak would do to get what he wants for the last four years, I now see what a secret organisation like the Free Masons could get up to. You nominate a share you want to dump, and everybody in on it short the poo poo out of it. Then, when it's far below its worth, pump the heck out of it.

All you have to believe is the Free Masons are running Ofcom.

I thought it was a classic head and shoulders in the last three months.
The right shoulder didn't form properly, so there is hope yet.

I bought in below 1p, a few years ago, so still in profit.

The annoying thing is, 1million shares NOT in an ISA.

Missed the 3.1p intra-day, which would have been £21,000+ in capital gains.
Not so bad this tax year, 12,300 tax free, then 10% basic rate.
The anxiety is now in 2021/22, Rishi Sunak could make the CGT 20%/40%.

With no dividend this year to use up the basic rate band, it's the ideal time to realise some serious capital gains.

So, hurry up, get to 5p before April 2021.

If it gets to 10p, I can split it. Sell 500,000 in 2020/21, and the then 500,000 in 2021/22.

I just know basic rate CGT in 2021/22 will be 20%.
Selling 125,000 shares a year for four years?

Do me a favour, give me a forced take over at 5p before April 2021.
Get it over with.

5.233% !!!

Only 20 institutions can have 5% each.

If every fund manager was that greedy, there would be a rush.
What about the FTSE Trackers? They have to buy.

Ration Book time. Queue for it. Ten shares each, now. Don't be greedy.

For quite a while, HSBC paid 51 cents, or US$0.51 a year.
That is 38p a year, at current exchange rate.

9.0% = 38p / £4.20

If history repeats itself, it will climb up to ~£8.

I chickened out at ~£6 last time.
Bought in at £4.25 in 2016.

Like Nigella says, Cook, Repeat, Eat.

Boris, tell Ofcom you promised fibre broadband for everybody.

With the money I make on BT.A, I can afford to pay Sky more.

"I think standard chartered shareholders will do even better than hsbc shareholders."

In 2016, I bought some Standard Chartered, I think it went up more than HSBC, but I thought HSBC is more diversified,
and so a good long term holding. I think I sold the STAN as soon as I made a quickie profit.

The ideal setup is if I bought 20,000 shares of HSBA at £2.83 in September 2020 for £56,600,
then sell 10,000 shares at £6, for £60,000. There now remains 10,000 shares, worth £60,000 ,
which qualifies for the HSBC Premier account.

Take the £60,000 proceed of the sale, and it's now a no-money-down affair.
Free money!

I managed to set up a no-money-down Buy-To-Let configuration, and rather miss it.

The house was worth £180k, so I got a mortgage for £100k, with £80k down.
On re-mortgage, some years later, the house was worth £350k, so I could get a mortgage for £180k,
because the tax man will only allow tax deduction for mortgage interest up to the original purchase price of £180k.
This means I got the £80k deposit back, and it was now no-money-down.
The rent paid the interest and various costs, and was generating an income stream.
The really hilarious thing was, the Sub-Prime crisis brought down the BOE interest to 0.5%, and my BTL deal was BOE+1.75%, after the fixed rate finished, so the income stream shot up!

Alas, the golden years of full interest tax relief was coming to an end, so I had to sell that house.

Didn't have the cash in September to buy at £2.86, but I did pick some HSBA up at £3.39 recently.
So, I can have a MINI HSBC Money Tree, at least.

https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/HSBA/hsbc-holdings-plc/company-page

Choose Max in the Drop Down Menu on the right.

It gives you a chart that goes from 1995 to 2020.

HSBA goes up to about £8 historically.
I managed to grab some at £4.25 , in 2016, sold out around £6.

There is an interesting little perpetual money making machine that I will try to set up.

You get a HSBC Premier account if you have £50k worth of business with HSBC.
The InvestDirect dealing account is pretty cheap, 4 x £10.50 quarterly = £42 Fee a Year to have the dealing account.
The S&S ISA is free of charge, since you already pay for the dealing account.

Once you bought the shares, for the £10.50 per deal, plus stamp duty, they will keep the shares for free, no custodian fees.
There no charge for paying out the dividend.

The idea is to have £50k+ worth of HSBA shares, inside an S&S ISA.
Obviously, the dividend is tax free.
If it's paying 5% dividend, that is £2,500 on £50k.
This is ample to pay off the £42 quarterly Fee.
At steady state, you now have about £2,458 a year income, tax free.

Ideally. you buy HSBA shares inside the S&S ISA, so you don't have to do bed and ISA, but you can't get £50k into an ISA in one go, unless you transfer in. Not that it matters, you get £2,000 Dividend Allowance a year. So, in year one, £20k is inside the ISA, with £30k outside. From the £30k holding, the £1,500 dividend is less than the £2,000 Dividend Allowance, so it's tax free anyway.

The fun thing is, once set up, it's HSBC paying you, FOREVER.

Trump has been dumped, COVID-19 vaccines, possible resumption of dividend.
What else do you want?

The growth engine video is just what you would expect, we will become TESCO and nail big concessions from everybody.

I have shares in TEN as well, so I don't want to bash it.

I had two months in China, thirty years ago, for £2,000 , not including getting there.
I had to work out you apply the visas in reverse, i.e. China first, then Mongolia, then Russia, then Poland.
They want to know they are not going to be stuck with you loitering, so they want to see that you have a ticket to leave as well. This means I am perfectly able to organise my own trips, without a "concierge".

Having said that, I witnessed a highly paid pigeon who did not understand that an electrically heated hot water cylinder has TWO heating elements. The bottom one died, which does happen, and can be swapped out by any plumber. He called Pimlico Plumbing, who charged him £500. All he had to do was to switch on the top element, to get hot water, and wait for a normal plumber, who will charge £200 tops.

I am therefore quite optimistic that Ten will have plenty of time poor "wealthy" people who think they provide a useful service. Generally, the HSBC Jade perks are worth around £100. Ten Private Membership is £29 per month, or £348 a year. If HSBC hands over rich muppets to Ten to exploit, AND pay £348 to TEN, HSBC deserves to go bankrupt.

I tried the online portal, before COVID-19, and the plane tickets are not cheaper. The available airline partners are limited as well. It just means other airlines don't want to play ball, and pay kickbacks.

I can just imagine the sales call to restaurants.
"TEN diners are not cheapskates who order Two course specials for £25, and don't order drinks. They are Shirley Bassey BIG SPENDERs"
"One glass of complimentary champagne will be amply rewarded by a big dinner bill."

No restaurant is going to keep one table for Ten, another for Quintessentially, and another for the concierge at the Dorchester. Forty years ago, the drill for theatres was they always keep a few seats unsold, until the last minute, in case there are last minute VIPs. This is why you queued for "Returned Tickets". They also happened to be the better seats. The maître d' of a restaurant makes a judgement call, depending on his experience. If TEN keeps sending dregs who order the house red, he will keep the table for some other concierge.

At £348 a year, it's riff raff time.

"You clearly know nothing about Ten mate ??"

I'm all ears. Let's have some real low down.

"more-than-a-little-bit-scary"

Darling, I want to clone your mother-in-law.
They have the technology now.

Arrrggggghhhhh!

Ten Lifestyle Group is like the EasyJet of concierge services.

You get free concierge service with HSBC Jade, which used to be with
https://www.quintessentially.com/
The Call centre girl sounded posh.

HSBC Jade switched to Ten Lifestyle Management Limited around 2018.
https://www.hsbc.co.uk/content/dam/hsbc/gb/pdf/jade-concierge.pdf
The Call Centre staff sounded like a New Zealand backpacker.

Despite all the talk of investing in IT, the customer experience is distinctly more TESCO than Harrods.
It is pretty obvious that TEN costs less than Quintessentially to HSBC Jade.

Apparently, TEN provides concierge service for COUTTS, too
https://concierge.coutts.com/product/coutts/homepage

The banks just want to reduce the cost of a FREE perk.

I have never had the Amex Centurion, which charges
Initiation Fee: $10,000.
Annual Fee: $5,000.
Maybe somebody who has the Centurion can tell us what a real concierge service is like.

At Smith & Wollensky
https://www.smithandwollensky.co.uk/
you get a free glass of champagne if you book through Ten.

Even if there are reserved tables, you are still competing with other concierge companies, as well as other members of Ten. Oh, and the real concierges in 5 star hotels.
Instead of one nice couple needing a table, there are now a thousand.
How is that nice IT computer going to help?

In terms of Sold Out shows, forget it.
For one show, they told me the theatre releases held back tickets on a Monday for that week.
I waited for six weeks, and not even an e-mail.

There is a phone App and an online portal
https://www.jade.hsbc.com/user/login

You can book things DIY.

More than likely, Ten will acquire more contracts, because they are cheaper.
This means it will have a bunch of wealthy people on its books.
With that, they should be able to leverage discounts, and get kickbacks, and make money that way.

Booking.com, OpenTable, Ticketmaster do the same sort of thing, of course.
Ten is more upmarket, and you can get through in fairly short waiting time by phone.

I suspect the contract they have with the banks is commission based.
I don't see HSBC handing rich customers over, just so Ten can make all the money.

E.g. HSBC pays Ten £100 per head, but gets 20% of gross profit in kickback from Ten, when the member books flights, restaurants, etc. I can see Russian businessmen eating at Claridge's , food is £500, but the drinks make it £20,000, including tips (~12.5%, Discretionary, say). If Ten gets 5% of the bill, that is £1,000 . HSBC (or Coutts) gets £200 at 20%. All this is just my speculation.

I have a few shares of TENG, just in case they succeed in fleecing the capitalist sheep/pigs.

"Just wish to add yesterday I had a fat finger incident and sold 1.660380M shares at around 11.44 at 1.56p the MM have not showed this now for 24 hours is this legal?"

It may not necessarily be dodgy dealing.

I have had big orders broken up into little ones.
This does mean that the individual trades may not be at the same price.
The trade statement just gives an average price.

I have also had incomplete orders, where they only manage to scrape together so many shares.
This is particularly true when you set a Limit Order.

Very annoying when you end up with NOT a whole number.

Selling 1,660,380 and buying 1,000,000 back next day?

30 Day Rule for CGT calculations?
I hate doing stuff like this.
Outside an S&S ISA, it's just masochism.

Or Tracker funds HAVE TO BUY.

Subconsciously, we all think:

"Active fund managers are spineless parasites, and their funds are closet trackers."
"You can't go wrong buying passive Trackers"

If you compare FTSE-100 and BT.A, for those five days, you will see there is no spoon.