Member Info for ElvisRocks

Who is listening in to tonight’s Podcast update, believe it is 2pm Houston time so 9pm UK time

Does anyone know the answer to this Q … heard on Sky Sports that Ineos want to buy the Glaziers 67% shareholding in Man Utd (the other 33% are listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange I believe).

With this being a sale of assets, not sale of shares, and my understanding the UK Takeover Panel not having a role, could someone buy Mookys 20% in the same manner and leave the rest of us 80% shafted.

I hadn’t thought about this potential scenario.

Thanks Warren

So Wolffie, not that we are scoring, that would be a “score draw” between me and you. Thanks to Warrens intervention we are both back in the game (no pun intended for a united fan) to play nicely on this board!

So tomorrow is another day, public holiday in the US today, what will tomorrow bring on the status conference continuation…

Mr Kioto, I think you should ask my good friend Wolffie this Q, he is chomping at the bit to give you his views … WOLFFIE ARE YOU THERE TO CRITIQUE MR. KIOTOS POST … I’m in the same camp as Mr Kioto

Anyone who buys cine would get you Wolffie as their global advisor, instantly propelled to the depths of the ocean with your doom and gloom!

So you really think Cine will take a 2-3bn cut or more to what they paid for it and the selling price when there believed to be >10 bidders, really?

dare I say it in Wolffies world, he thinks the sale / valuation is less than the $6bn debt … I’m sure he’ll be quick to point this out …

100 or so leases closed …

Didn’t Cine buy Regal for about 3.8bn, why would it be lower now, not sure if the closure of 100 or so makes it more or less valuable, would assume the latter as they were deemed loss making or with onerous lease commitments, otherwise why close them?

Bulls, a sale doesn’t have to clear every penny / cent of the debt (by which I mean the loans not the leases debt), most businesses carry some debt and it would not be extraordinary for Cine to continue with some serviceable debt, however this is “recaptured” in the new restructured entities …

What’s factors do I believe support a figure of 20p

- there will be a major sale of assets to cover the debt
- funders will be required to put in money as possible new equity, with some dilution
- the Ciniplex claim will be settled somehow
- lenders will accept haircuts to get out of the situation
- we may only be left with a row business and some uk, but with manageable debt
- surrender of tax losses have value
- shareholders (who ultimately own the company) won’t accept major sale and major dilution, that’s a double whammy
- Cineworld have good debtor advisors who have been working on this for 2+ years
- there are several bidders still interested
- Mooky is not going to surrender his life’s work and his 20% without something as a way out, whilst the judge will have no sentient, there are several parts to this exit
- return of better movie slate

All in, this supports a new co business in the area of $150m on a like for like basis to now

Ain’t no crack dream Wellington Boots, my base and only case is we get out of here sometime in the next 6-12 months at a price, after either a majorsale or heavy dilution of 15-20p no higher. Now put your figure out there.

… had to laugh at this Wolffie, an article on Cineworld from AAT (Association of Accounting Technicians), the lowest entry level for accountants like you, one notch above primary school … will be well suited to your skills level. There are business and accounting courses you can take to improve your knowledge!

https://www.aatcomment.org.uk/news/needs-an-accountant-cineworld/

btw, pigeon accounting, it’s like me speaking English and you Italian, not my fault your can’t understand the basics ..

… and never a good idea to bring in others comments into the argument, it’s a bit like say at school “teacher I didn’t do it but he said” … ever thought Hexam maybe speaks Italian as well … not my fault you didn’t do an accounting course in that school of business you learnt in!

Nope Wolff, just follow them lawyers bills to inform my earlier knowledge… let me try another one on you, “accruing or providing” for the Cineplex case in full …. Wolffie there is no case law precedent in this case, appeals still have to be run that may or may not be successful … and now Ciniplex look like they are at the “offer” stage

… guess you’re about to get your grandpa advice out like this week … “I would advise newcomers to this board …” what, listen to you? Are you having a laugh? Must have been a real laugh a minute whatever toy town business you learnt at!

The point here Wolffie is you don’t have the level of business acumen/experience you claim to have, just generalised chit chat

Happy reading mr Wolffie given we unfortunately have to educate and point this out to you … I feel like opening the goodwill or accruals education…. don’t go calling it meat and two veg now …

https://www.justia.com/bankruptcy/docs/bankruptcy-tax-guide/reduction-of-tax-attributes/

Let me help you Wolff, given as you keep talking about intelligence but you have no clue …

… they will be looking at tax benefits available to the company from possible debt cancellation in a bankcruptcy, how inter company “debt related” balances should be amended and reconstructed in an old / new group structure scenario, how this is cleared through HMRC for the Disclosure Statement and (possibly) although it has since gone quiet in the lawyers a possible NOL Motion (this has more relevance in a D4E)

Worth probably tens of millions of benefits, maybe 100M+, both to the buyer and sellers shareholders… called buy side / sell side diligence my good friend, but then what do you know as you have no experience in business or accounting

Ok, so on the intelligent discussion point Wolff, what EY as tax advisors spending thousands of hours effectively to both sets of groups, doing? The last response I had from you was a general “all corporates take advice”

Be more specific man!

You have this answered your own question earlier then Wolff, if you assume no other price target than zero is the only game in town, you will be either short (even though you say can’t borrow shares) or just here to pi..ss people off as you are not invested. I think that’s what you call get a life!

So why are your opinions and posts always negative Wolff, that in effect shareholders in Cine will end up with a big fat zero. Ok that can be an opinion too but really you think shareholders will end up with zero?

Wolff, with reference to me being a bit narky or petulant when responding, the reason for this is your posts are always negative, often “I am the one who knows more and been there done that and got the T-shirt” and if I say black, you will say white

Wellington boots posts have always been ok in my eyes, I lost respect though when he tried to indicate he knew more than the lawyers / barristers on the cineplex case and came across as a kn..ob