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MrBond46 and the Cey SP is doing the same up after good news and then falls back following the GP so at the end of the day the news needs to be remarkable, and the GP needs to be climbing if we are to see any significant increase in the SP come 3rd Qtr. results.
I am still worried about the cost impact of the strip ratio caused by the large waste removal contract, the sooner we are back to straight forward mining and not muck shifting a large backlog of waste we may have a chance of a climbing SP.

3bear don't beat yourself up because I have had discussions with people working on mines who can be confused. More so the muck shifters complaining that the truck is down on tonnes compared with the machine spec sheet.
Or when doing a mine study to determine the fleet size and mix when asking consultants what the weight/density of the material is.
As I say it is quite a gutsy decision to go for light weight bodies because they carry more volume and overloading a truck is a no no , do it only once and you are in danger of breaking or weakening something.
It is paramount that you know your material density.
Another very important thing to know is how abrasive the material is because I have had some wonderful discussions with the guys in the workshop protecting the bodies/trays with welding on wear strips and the production guys asking why they are down on tonnes. Yes the bodies/trays are carrying around extra steel. Very seldom do the figures stack up to adding wear bars unless of course the material being moved isn't valuable which is unlikely on a mine or quarry.
Before changing the bodies there will have been some extensive studies using weigh scales in conjunction with the onboard information on the trucks and the loaders in all areas of the mine.

Excellent job by the guys in Egypt it's a gutsy decision to replace Truck Trays with modified trays and involves considerable amount of work to fully understand the weight of the material being mined over the whole of the mine.
It doesn't take much to overload trucks and although I don't know the details of the truck body design light weight bodies doesn't mean that the bodies are lighter it means they can take more volume of lighter weight material than the truck was designed to accept.

Tibbs you refer to a geologist called McPhail and would be grateful if you can advise where you obtained the report that he discovered the bonanza seams/areas.
All reported gold reserves have to be audited and I am wondering if that is what McPhail does for a living and that would maybe account for his nomadic life style.

Tibbs No I didn't participate in the Q2 phone in as I had an appointment that I couldn't change. To be honest it is the next couple of quarters that interests me more as all being well there are some interesting updates due.

Tibbs thanks for the links but as I say had first hand knowledge of both processes having visited Bogosu many times as they also ran a good size fleet of equipment.
Going back to the Ampella deal I don't see any additional resource added by Centamin at BW so maybe we can give someone the benefit of the doubt and say that someone saw more in the Cote D'Ivoire resources than Burkina.
How much money was spent on drilling in Burkina as against Cote D'Ivoire I don't know.
I am sure it is out there somewhere but history doesn't really interest me because it can't be changed, maybe the salesman in me always looking for the next opportunity.
Likewise at Centamin it looks as though Martin Horgan and his team with fresh sets of eyes are looking forward not backwards and that sort of forward thinking and cutting out the dead wood inevitably ruffles feathers.
What we now need is something to come to fruition with increased grades and production at Sukari with a reduction in costs clearly outlined in a timeline presentation showing when the hurt stops and there are black numbers at the bottom of the quarterly financials. Suggest this will only be possible when the waste contract comes to an end and capital expenditure flattens out.
Likewise a sooner rather than later opening up at Doropo and positive news regarding ABC will only help.
The other opportunities in Egypt are I would suggest long term and a good number of years away even though some positive news from theses areas won't hurt not sure I am looking that far forward.

Tibbs I saw first hand the problems related to refractory ore at Bogosu in Ghana where a roaster was installed because this was at the time the way to process such difficult ore that can't be leached using cyanide.
The roaster didn't work so the initial company involved in the mine had to be baled out the funding organisation. Eventually a BIOX plant was introduced and as far as I am aware is still in use.
Reading between the lines because I can't find anything to substantiate the reason for Batie West being non core, would suggest together with Lycopodium , the new team decided the ore body at BW just wasn't viable for Centamin and their knowledge/Experience base.

Tibbs Batie West was only part of the deal with Ampella and as I say if they get a couple of mines up and running we are on the right track. So not entirely a sow's ear but has delayed them getting into production but better late than never.

Tibbs sorry didn't answer your mention of lack of technical detail . If you go to the Centamin web site and look at Doropo there is a good deal of detail both technical and management summary albeit 2021 and 2019.
We are promised an update I believe in the next qtr which will be interesting as the more exploration/drilling they do the larger the reserve. I appreciate that grades aren't anything special but an additional 200,000 ounces a year for a minimum of 13 years providing costs kept in check isn't too shabby.

Tibbs When Batie West was bought from Ampella it came with other properties and Batie West was the one that had pretty much all of the work done by Ampella so was basically seen as the jewel in the crown. However the type of ore needed larger volumes of oxide ores to become viable. Were they sold a pup maybe but must reserve judgement without seeing what was on offer and hindsight is a precise science.
OK considerable holes drilled but I don't have access to the number of holes drilled at BW against Doropo and ABC basically was the exploration fund spread across all resources and what percentage allocated to each and others.
What I will say is that if they bring in Doropo and ABC we are going in the right direction, but maybe a question worth asking is what is the total cost over and above the 40 million Australian dollars that was paid for Ampella's resources.
Tibbs yes the money has to be paid back to the bank and it will be a cost but how does a company grow if it doesn't invest and this is one of the ways the majors grow.
Not that long ago Sukari had over $300 million in cash in the bank and the balance is currently $175 million so to be honest if Centamin are to grow they need to borrow.

3Bear
Just to add a little more to the contractor owner miner discussion.
At the start up stage of a mine there is a period of time relating to "Opening up the mine" this includes access roads, base camp, foundation work for the Process Plant, Power House, Workshops, Offices etc. There will be a need to expand the housing area, maybe relocating villages and the list goes on and involves construction works that has nothing to do with the expertise of the mining company. This is where you involve local contractors and mining contractors both of whom you will have been talking to in detail for a considerable length of time to ensure equipment is timed to arrive at pre planned times.
The early involvement of contractors is crucial to the overall mine plan to ensure on site facilities and systems are in place and planned for.
One of the difficult decisions is determining what size truck is applicable to the mine and equipment suppliers will have been discussing numerous scenarios. Contractors will also have their own ideas based on the practicalities of the mine location and their own local experience. Often start up trucks and all of the equipment related to the truck fleet is determined by what is available quickly from the contractor and will maybe be a smaller truck than the mine equipment study recommends but the recommendation and what is quickly available compromise can be backed up by getting into the ore quicker.
Some will say contract mining is more expensive than owner operator and yes I agree but not necessarily in the early years when learning the ore body and overall resource. It provides a valuable period to understand best fleet sizing and to develop personnel.
Sukari learned a lot during the underground years from a contractor which enables them now to go the owner route and I am sure they will also learn even more as they grow into the job, hopefully no costly errors.
Would Sukari have benefitted from going down the contractor route for the open pit, not sure? Difference here is that at start up there where no experienced mining contractors operating in Egypt, whereas in West Africa there are a few with the strength to do a very good job at Doropo.

Cote D'Ivoire is still West Africa but there are many risks in business particularly mining and I don't think there are many if any new mining areas anywhere in the world that doesn't come with political risk.
Including Egypt as we have experienced in the past.
When I lived and worked in Sierra Leone many years ago the senior guys would take long weekends to the then Ivory Coast capital Abidjan because it was likened to a French Provincial Town with excellent service and great food. Unfortunately at that time I was not senior so couldn't afford the luxury.
OK times have changed and Core D'Ivoire has gone through some seriously difficult times but I hear that currently is far more stable.
Doing business in West Africa requires considerable due diligence, employing the right indigenous senior management and people with local experience.
Horgan understands West Africa and I would suggest has the contacts and knows people who he can trust. I was very relieved and majorly buoyed by his appointment as CEO. He has the team to drive through Doropo and other West African resources such as ABC.
Unlike some on this board I am happy with the delay on bringing on a West African resource as it has to be done right and I am also happy with doing a detailed bankable study document that can be presented to a bank in return for a loan.
A loan from a bank reduces risk, helps with obtaining political risk insurance and gives the market confidence, as it is like getting your investment decision underwritten by a bank and a political risk insurer. This is how a company gets a strong credit rating so can only be a good thing.
I don't know any company that doesn't use other peoples money when developing a mine especially in what is a high risk area, including the majors and Horgan again has the necessary background to know what is required to dot the i's and cross the t's.
Also he can move into Doropo using knowledge and experience available from local Mining Contractors and grow into the mine before contemplating major investments in equipment and related people that is required by an owner operator.
Concentrating his efforts on the Processing Plant, ore body and mine layout.
The most successful start up mines that I have experienced in both West Africa and Tanzania has involved professional mining contractors and I have seen very strong figures that justify taking this course for the early years.
Again Horgan has experience using contractors in his previous life in West Africa, so like you I think Doropo is a solid go.

Tibbs picking up on your point relating to Africa being higher cost than elsewhere. Not sure that I agree with such a sweeping statement because there are a considerable number of countries on the continent of Africa and if it is an average cost then OK yes I agree. Cost of recovery in South Africa's deep mines will outweigh the relatively low costs of an open pit mine in West Africa or Tanzania. However when I met with the likes of Newmont, Barrick, Goldfields back in the early 2000's they were all looking at getting into East and West Africa both known as low cost regions. Interestingly I also met SRK in South Africa on a number of occasions and they were positive on West African growth and mining development opportunities.
Also average costs are very difficult to hang your hat on as the costs from one mine and another only 50 miles away can vary considerably depending on the ore body, lack of or availability of power, water, management and people.
As for being less efficient again this is questionable as a company together with a couple of major mining companies we had visits from our peers to understand the efficiencies that are possible.
I will however reiterate that I retired in 2008 so we are talking historic knowledge.

Tibbs Not sure I agree with the comment regarding Sukari having relatively low mining costs in their open pit. With a strip ratio over 10 to 1 their costs are currently much too high and this is where I would like to understand in more detail the cost per ounce of Capital's waste removal. This will then hopefully provide us with something to look forward to at the end of the contract, a more realistic strip ratio and reduced cost per tonne/ounce. Or will it and is this high strip ratio more realistic given the age of the open pit?
Unfortunately I was laid low with covid so wasn't able to participate in the phone in maybe next time especially as next quarter will hopefully provide some important updates.

Sotolo thoroughly agree AISC at the higher end of $1275 to $1425 is a worry and how much of this is caused by the Capital waste project? There again a necessary evil and is this an ongoing cost with strip ratio closer to reality than earlier years where cut backs kept to a minimum?
Guess we won't know until 2024 when the waste contract has come to an end.

Great news banks/finance companies giving positive feedback.
My belief is that Centamin are looking for funds to grow their mine portfolio with Doropo upper most on the list followed closely by Egyptian expansion. Also the divesting of Batie could be something that Macquarie are being asked to look at.
Would they need Macquarie to look at funding the acquisition of the Capital fleet maybe but suggest Cat Finance would be an easier less expensive route.

I totally agree with "Mouth Watering" and how apt the word "Bonanza" is and this increase in what is effectively asset growth should wake up investors to the true value of Centamin.
No doubt however is that we need an improvement in the Gold Price and a strong set of mid year numbers.
Indeed at last some long overdue good news all round.

Tibbs to be honest the people that count as far as I am concerned are the people who get up each morning and go to work at the mine or the exploration project.
If I ever needed to know what was going on it was of paramount importance to visit the site(s) and listen to what was happening currently and planned for the future from the Mine manager and his team.
Visits to head offices were also important but the majors would normally refer me to the site personnel or we would be more current than the guys in head office anyway.
As far as Centamin is concerned it is top heavy with non exec directors so suggest it is less important to visit head office as there won't be anyone there, so guys on site are the important drivers of the business.

"Board of Directors" all I see is a Chairman a CEO and a CFO all of the others are Non Exec and the Chairman doesn't get involved in the day to day operations so wonder how the voting goes?
Non Exec are normally in an advisory position or for bouncing off ideas in their given area of expertise and the list of senior managers with the exception of a couple of individuals is pretty much a list of white collar after the fact types. Hardly a go getting team in support of the few.
I would like to see other senior operational managers in the business such as the General /Mining/Production Managers of Sukari listed among the leadership team.
Cowichan a throw away comment where you select just one sentence '"Creating opportunity for people through responsible mining" of the "Purpose, Values and Culture page which does link into Vision and Strategy.

Cowichan take a look at the Geology Capital Markets Presentation last September as this answers what they are doing to a certain extent with results from drilling programmes in and around Sukari.