Member Info for danl90

Thanks rag but again I've sort of answered this. Partnerships for marketplace will just be "gaps" so for example kids. We don't do it yet. No brand naturally extends to kids so you would use a partner here so we have kids instantly

The fact you want brands to come in on the marketplace in sort of all areas like "mens" shows youre thinking of this like asos and not like boohoo. The reason I gave you back in Nov of why i don't like third party reseller (asos) is you can cannibalize your own brand. This can be the same for boo with marketplace so we only partner to cover gaps and this is the beauty of the marketplace model and the virtuous circle it drives

1) people wanting kids - see debs on google and go "i know debs i'll have a look for kids on there (as it's there through a partner). they then buy kids (boo gets a revenue it would usually miss) and the customer then learns of karen millen and is hooked
2) karen millen customer - shopping on debs as she wants a new lipstick and a coat so goes on debs to get both in one go. "hey, boo are now doing kids and our Sandra is having a baby" although she'd be wrong boo aren't doing kids it via our partner but boo also gets an extra kids revenue

So this is what i was saying to your 1st of 2nd comment

rag - " now they have much bigger demo to gun for, full concentration should now be putting in all the structure as it takes 6 months min to start putting yoyr stamp on the ranges and those ranges all of a sudden span many brands and many diff buying departments from socks, pants, shirts formal and casual, trousers formal and casual , jeans, knitwear, jersey , outerwear , loungewear , activewear , shorts and this us just on mens , add womans which has more departments and kids , oh and shoes itmay give you an idea of the task ahead."

Is that we don't need to rush to do it in 6 months and swallow a herculean task. We can utilise and leverage the market place to do this instantly, no lead time and no huge ramp up in overhead, stock and risk as your suggesting. So yeah i get your point but i'm saying (and this is what i've been saying from the start) is we can do all this at a pace we want as the market place can fill gaps

Don't sell socks - ok - but is socks big money? Sort of but it's not a priority now. "ok, if not a priority let's partner it"
don't sell kids - ok - but is it big money? yeah so def on the plan for future but atm i've headache with mantaray - "ok lets partner it for now"

So there socks and kids revenue instantly and no cannibalising the core brands and we have just bought that can be left do what they do best without biting off more than we can chew. Also it cost us NOTHING

"Dan so everyone is aware Debs was founded on Wholesale or as you like to call it reseller" - who cares! that model went bust why bother copying it. It's like when you said "the industry does wholesale to survive" - we don't want to be hand to mouth. If thats your justification for w

no rag i did argue own brand was the only show in town when we were comparing asos to boohoo. as i was saying reseller was inferior. I then for weeks after (when i pointed out the equity story) mentioned how we need to be like hut. hut operates a market place and that is commission on parts we can't do on own brand yet. I said yesterday we can partner to test the water and get scale quick and then decide to own brand so yeah own brand stays the end goal. My point (and please read back below) is you were making out like we had to climb all those product offerings now. We don't we can partner to "plug the gaps" - i've said this sorry

"lets not forget they did until they got thrown out (JL didnt agree with Dan)" - 1-2% isn't the business that just a vanity piece again please don't get this bit confused again either

No asos isn't a market place model - i've covered this now please get it. They have a small niche marketplace which is so tiny they don't disclose. Asos is own buy and reseller. Boo does 1 of these two. We have no intention of doing the part that (until today) made up 60% of asos. 30% own buy - and <1% marketplace. The way you blow up businesses doing a small nothing into something we might as well say easyjet is competition as i can buy perfume on the plane! in your world easyjet is a retailer as 0.000000001% revenue comes from selling a few MK perfumes

"Back to my point either way herculean job !!!! As you point out BH and PLT also have to grow x 6 its why they were in Dubai in the middle of a PANDEMIC" - if this was such a huge task 1) they'd have to tell the market or they are breaking the law. you can't have a fundamental issue which directly relates to revenue and not update. It literally black and white that one

"FS, i get plug ins you dont have to be a Brain Surgeon , you dont get them , you cant flick a switch , Asos 900 boutiques thats 900 boutiques not 900 lines 900 boutiques" exactly again please listen to JL he covered this. We are doing larger partnerships. It will look nothing like the asos vanity marketpplace. Look at hut with swoon. All swoon pics etc. It will like 10 partners not 900 indie boutiques we are staying well away from that. It will be "do we have kids?" "no" "ok osh gosh to met carol" - they can have kids section on the website and all their own pic (again swoon on hut). We then do NOTHING except take a commission

" i think the model will be The Hut but because i think the model will be own buy and market place but more own buy" you just said before brands won't come to boohoo! literally scroll down you said this and now you're a fan of marketplace

" its whether the Brand owner whats it on there and whter the customer wants to buy it from there or the Brands own website, the Kamani's head is now well above the parapet on Debs and its association and if its on another site then whether it will even be allowed, after all it's not called Discount Debs for nothing." ha! co

No I said reseller (we've covered again this morning) I always wanted to be like Hut ie a marketplace as i don't want to hold tonne of third party stock. Boo is not doing the asos bit - we put it in the bin - so JL agrees with Dan

Agree i don't like wholesale and boo have to date boo have engaged in no whole sale for clothing - so JL agrees with Dan

marketplace in theory is extremely high GM% (I explained this to you the other week) as we charge a commission ie we never bought anything we never sold anything (as we don't touch the stock - unlike asos) we just charge a commission. As i said the accountants might make us gross this out for accounting rule but CFO said if so we will just give you the commission line. In effect commission is 100% GM so yeah I really like it and - JL agrees with Dan

"As i said all rev models are good for me, what i said was JL would give his right arm for the spread of demo graphic that all Asos Rev stream brings onto the site" - well clearly he had still got his right arm as he put the bit that is asos in the bin! I have now repeated this 7 - 8 times and I can't do it anymore but Boo put in the bin the asos part! sorry to upset you here - but arm still there

"However the whole point of this thread was that they have a herculean effort for the reasons i mentioned that you disagreed" - so if its huge for these small bits and bobs how on earth is boo going to cope next year when boo and PLT have to a task x6 the size! ha madness

"its not a plug in its a massive task" - again sorry buddy but this is showing how you don't get the model and what JL is trying to achieve. we "integrate" own brands as that goes in the platform (same as ASOS rns). The "plug in" element is the partnerships ie they showcase on the website, boo takes a commission and we do NOTHING ELSE. It's instant. We don't buy, we don't design or manufacture, we never hold it as stock. We just plug the partner into debs and charge a commission

"I've given you the 4 rev streams in language that all can u/s , please tell me which of these you believe will be successful and adopted by BH/Debs" - JL has done this mate. Please read the debs rns and investor presentation all this is in there. I can't help you much more

"Currenty Asos has 900 Clothing Brands on market place from 20 different countries" - yeah but it's tiny so small they don't disclose revenue on it or mention it in the accounts. If it was the £120m of market place that debs was they would say but it's immaterial its just a vanity thing. "Debs no market place" - again sorry buddy but we have £120m of revenue here

I'm saying sell your shares as you disagree with JL. I'm telling you his words. he laid out the master plan. If you think the plan is wrong why hold the shares? You don't like what JL wants to do

You also keep confusing the market place model (hut) with reseller (asos)

Please read the RNS and listen to JL. If you don't like the above (which is J

@rag fair but like i said I've said laid out the strategy boo is going down. JL has also said it. If you don't like it but you like "provide it protects the Brand i'm for all revenue streams" then sell boo and buy asos as we are not going down this route

Don't hold a share if you think it's being mismanaged or the strategy is bad. that's madness! ha

Theres a comment you said a while back when i said the reseller element was Asos big weakness and you said it is a "massive strength" and boo should follow and JL "would give his right arm to be like asos"

boohoo put the asos part in the bin. We are not following those strategy elements below from asos. If you think they are key and a mistake to not be doing then sell boohoo because JL is very clear that we are not going that way

If you don't think we can build partnerships for the marketplace then again - sell! this is key for us going forward. Why hold shares if you think our new strategy isn't going to work? again madness

"whether they have everything in place to maximise, i say they don't, they will but at mo they are not hitting the ground running with any of the Debs Brands, Arcadia more so" - atm no issue we don't even get the website until march and even then we got a month or so of resorting the website etc and getting partnerships in place to fill the store window. launch happening in the summer so by then we can have sorted these things. We manage to get our supplier base to pump out the extra 40% growth every year (which for this year is c.£500m of extra stuff) and you're sweating about how we are going to accommodate an extra £50m - £100m!

Again if you don't think we can manage that then sell as the boo brands next year have to add another £500m - £600m. The other week we spoke about KM and you said it was 200-300pcs per season tops but then as i pointed out to you Carol said it's now 1,000 going to 1,500. So we have track record here and do it every year on far bigger numbers - £2billion revenue the core boo brands will be next year. I'm not sweating finding the space for some extra bits and bobs from debs

and then all that stuff floats through our platform - easy

I fully respect you know how the back end of the fashion business works. But we are investing here for value (share price) and management think everything i have said is the way to make your shares worth more. If you think it's wrong then sell the shares as why bet on something you think wrong and will lose? This is where JL is taking us decide if you like it or not

@bangbang

Want your mind blown? Go and find my very first posts. read those threads

Read where I was saying boo should go and the core strengths and read where others were saying boo should go and that those strengths were weaknesses. Then compare that to where we are now! - Spooky ha

but yeah get carol over the states. few lunches, few chats, couple of charity dinners, sell the debenhams heritage and those 300 million customer visits and no doubt we can snag a couple of juicy brands - don't forget we grew USA revenue 82% over the slave labour period and taht was when were Boohoo. Now, to those brands we want to entice we are Debenhams

Sorry rag don't jump on osh kosh. I'm not saying them for definite i'm trying to explain to you the business model to say you don't need to do what you said below (the way the world was done). Our market place model is that we "plug in" the gaps and we do this instantly. Osh Kosh was just in my head

I'm just trying to explain to you the model and how what you described below is not where the business is heading

You can take my word for it or we can wait 2/3 months and you'll see it happen. As i said on my post the day on the key boo decisions we've discussed i'm 4 - 0. The benefit I have on this one is JL has literally told us how this is going to work and what the plan is. If you don't agree or think its a good move than sell because this is where we are going

"more to the point wont want to be tainted with all the baggage it brings being associated with BH" again and this is like the rest of the board has said. The outside world see association with Debenhams a 200 year old British institution. They don't see boohoo. There will be brands Debenhams will attract - Once again please read the RNS we already have 25% of online sale via marketplace. It's already there we can just plug in more. I've cut it out for you

"Marketplace: Approximately 25% of the online revenue (primarily fashion and homewares)" - see already there. You send Carol over to the states and you think she can't bring back a handful of new partners? come on!!!!

Again I mean this in the best way but you need to stop thinking of how things "were done". That is gone now. Boohoo isn't valuable as it's good as selling clothes. It's valuable as it's a scalable platform etc etc etc

Want more evidence. Read the asos rns this morning it's full of the strategy and it's a play by play of what i'm saying and have been saying

"Transforming the digital experience through full integration into the ASOS platform"

"All underpinned by our existing global warehouse and technology infrastructure"

"We will work to integrate these brands into our business quickly. Our capacity to do so is supported by our ability to use our existing warehouse and technology infrastructure. In addition, we will transition c.300 employees across design, buying and retail partnerships. As part of the integration process, we will undertake a thorough review of the supply chain to ensure it complies with all our Fashion with Integrity principles.....Our familiarity with these brands and our experience developing and running in house brands, together with our well-developed technology and warehouse infrastructure, gives us confidence in our ability to execute the transition with as little disruption as possible."

the last point is what i'm saying below the arcadia bits will come with the ready made pieces - staff there. All Asos are doing are plugging the GM parts onto their platform as the platform IS THE VALUE AND STRATEGY

No Rag. Sorry buddy i'm no meaning to be annoying here but you didn't seem to grab this when i was saying it back in Oct and from the comments below it seems you might have missed it now

The majority of clothing will be the boo. I explained this below i'll re-cut for ease
"You need to view debenhams as buying a shopping window where we put all the brands we have got and just bought (and will get). Each brand gets it own management, buying, design teams etc (which tbh probably have) and manufacture for debs brands is coming from coast, warehouse and oasis (JL said this as they have now got into test and repeat thinking so we LEVERAGE that now). But as I say we have a huge chunk of this in place or it is coming across and we “plug-in”

Apart from make up you don’t really want Debs selling much except Boo own brands. Partnerships team is what makes this the Hut group model and not asos (asos isn’t the market place model they are reseller as they hold stock - they might claim this but it’s a clear difference)

So partnerships gets us over the issue you mention below - need a men’s shoes offer? Spend 6 months on China sourcing shoe supplier, build a team with huge overhead, order stock and then...bugger it didn’t sell! Nope this is the old world and dead"

so we use the current coast, warehouse and oasis supply chain for debs (JL said this clear as on the investor call). The arcadia bits will come with supply (asos said this this am). All we use partnerhsips for is gaps so in your earlier posts where you mention a huge shopping list of new items we need to think about

" now they have much bigger demo to gun for, full concentration should now be putting in all the structure as it takes 6 months min to start putting yoyr stamp on the ranges and those ranges all of a sudden span many brands and many diff buying departments from socks, pants, shirts formal and casual, trousers formal and casual , jeans, knitwear, jersey , outerwear , loungewear , activewear , shorts and this us just on mens , add womans which has more departments and kids , oh and shoes itmay give you an idea of the task ahead."

the answer is is we don't any "gaps" in the offering so for example kids range? We just call oshkosh b'gosh or someone who would LOVE to be in the UK but can't afford to take the risk and partner with them and in a few interent clicks - boom! kids range done

I'm not saying think of it as "head to head with amazon" it is being like amazon to beat Next - make sense? Its a BUSINESS MODEL and our EQUITY STORY

Yeah my post above was pretty clear but I’ll explain again (JL explained at the analyst call too so worth a listen). So what I’m calling partnership is say there is a product we don’t sell ie clothes for men in x demographic or style and this isn’t a natural extension for one of our owned brands you “partner” with a third party business. They get to show all the agreed products on the debs website (so our shop window looks full) but the partner handles all the stock as it’s essentially their products. Boo will never own, it touch or manufacture it. The item would go straight from partner to the customer. All boo will get is the x% commission.

It’s laid out on the boohoo RNS it’s the top one of the debs revenue lines. Like 4 where the buyers sit (which is the asos bit re clothes) boo have put in the bin

So we don’t need a huge team of buyers now we just build partnerships. We don’t need to start sourcing, manufacturing and supplying all those items you mention and worrying about filling the shop window over 6 months we can do it instantly with partnerships

This is what we have all been excited about and what JL was saying. Game has moved on fella. This is the scalable model future

Think like Amazon or hut. Not penny wise

The bit re debs holding 200,000 SKUs (except make up) we have put in the bin. I said back in Oct it’s awful for boo to go down that route and JL agreed. Bin that. Sucks up working cap, takes up warehouse space, cannibalises own brands and has huge investment costs. Think like Uber this part of the business. Taxi service which owns no cars. The marketplace partnerships are us being a retailer and we own no clothes - future baby!

Debs will have 200,000. No fella you need to not think of Debenhams and what was there before. We haven’t bought their business model

You need to view debenhams as buying a shopping window where we put all the brands we have got and just bought (and will get). Each brand gets it own management, buying, design teams etc (which tbh probably have) and manufacture for debs brands is coming from coast, warehouse and oasis (JL said this as they have now got into test and repeat thinking so we LEVERAGE that now). But as I say we have a huge chunk of this in place or it is coming across and we “plug-in”

Apart from make up you don’t really want Debs selling much except Boo own brands. Partnerships team is what makes this the Hut group model and not asos (asos isn’t the market place model they are reseller as they hold stock - they might claim this but it’s a clear difference)

So partnerships gets us over the issue you mention below - need a men’s shoes offer? Spend 6 months on China sourcing shoe supplier, build a team with huge overhead, order stock and then...bugger it didn’t sell! Nope this is the old world and dead

What boo will now do is fine a popular men’s shoe brand and the partnership team will say “hey want access to 300m online visitors? They say “hell yeah”. “Ok, cool well can you speak to xpo and sort new day delivery? “Yeah”. “Great well you can sell via our market place and boo take a 15% commission on everything you sell” “deal”

And instantly the maketplace has a full store window, “capital light (in the RNS), no risk and instant revenue via commission. If men’s shoes is popular we can then start to do via an own brand or buy the partner

We need to stop thinking how things were done. We are in the new world now. Scale, integration, data and leverage

Read the asos RNS it’s full of these words. Although they kept wholesale HUGE mistake and they will unwind but glad boo never went that way. Think it’s as the Arcadia brands Rev was a lot via online than expected

@rag the site is dead easy if you look at Karen Millen, coast and warehouse they all the boo website format and back end. In terms of all those different parts you mention you kind of don’t need to with the beauty of the market place idea. We can promote our brands in core areas and fill gaps with partnerships which have no risk and we get paid commission and it’s also brings new audiences (this idea is what value the market place brings - in the investor pres there a virtuous circle diagram to explain this dynamic). So I wouldn’t get too worried about doing all that. Instead you just cement brands you have, seperate management teams, they earn their own marketing budget and all access the platform. If coast want to go into shoes their call you just have a central “high level” oversight team to make sure no cannibalism. And yeah plug the gaps with partnerships so you have everything to sell straight away. Your 6 months ramp up gone!

“Gone from corner shop to asda” sorry we haven’t. All the back end of Debenhams will be gone. Only new overhead will be a partnerships team and a bit more overhead (photo studio. Dale st has loads of property so get one to rent for £40k). Design and brand teams for each brand wash their face in GM so no issue here

Models and scalable platforms rag. Come on, been 3 months now. Embrace it

It’s similar with what you’re saying about London brands and sticking a rocket up the arse of each brand. Again not embracing the synergy a marketplace gives you. Why advertise 8 fairly similar brands when you can just advertise Debenhams as a place to get those 8 brands? You cut advertising spend to 1/8 - scale it!

This is the future of the industry and it’s what creates value.

But people will saying what I’m saying is rubbish and I’m silly but then applaud the genius of the board when it happens in

I’m like Van Gough on this board. I’m not appreciated in my own time :) ha TCM this is sarcasm again fella I’m not actually an artist from the 19th century

Don’t think I mentioned marketplace? Yeah debs is a way to sell “marketplace” but the supply to the marketplace for all boo brands is the platform. What makes boo so valuable (and what I always was told was rubbish) is the platform which you can scale and scale so plug in more and more revenue and not incur any extra costs. Third party brands boo has on the platform we won’t hold stock for

We just need to balance what we let on there or risk the asos problem of not being able to grow your own brands. In my view this isn’t an issue as I’d only partner to grow either 1) areas or products we don’t currently sell or want to sell direct ie swoon on hut or 2) open up new geographies ie open in Brazil. They don’t know Debs so find 3/4 good Brazil brands and let them access the marketplace cheaply for that geography. Boo brands then get attention from the organic traffic

@onesmallstep we have had the platform for years. We have already added misspap, coast, Karen Millen, warehouse and oasis into it. We have a pretty solid track record on this and doing it fast. There’s no worries on this part buddy.

Debs isn’t the “platform” I think there’s a few on here that view debs as the platform. When debs is really just a shop window with traffic. It just gives “small” brands an instance audience

But yeah platforms there. All running and ready for another £1bill of revenue so why built it and not use it?

@onesmall and rag - really good article on Telegraph out today talking about everyone heading to be online platforms and how there are variances in their approach and models. Good to read for a basic understanding for what has been going on last 2-3 years and where the industry is headed

@onesmallstep - we have the foundation buddy. It’s the platform. When we acquire a brand now we could in theory take out every single penny of overhead and boost the margin of what we bought as it all runs through the boo infrastructure.

This is what I’ve been saying for months. This is the business model and what creates value. Example we buy a business that is £200m Rev, £80m GM and £10m PBT in theory you could see that be £200m Rev (so assuming don’t grow it), £100m GM (extra margin as through our platform) and £90m as it borrows all group overhead (I stuck £10m in for prudence)

But this is why you 100% spend the cash. As we can rip out costs in days. We also can get that beautiful multiple arbitrage (gods greatest invention)

We aren’t doing M&A per say any more everything is “bolt on”

And...the big one...tik tok?

Of all the ones to miss! Ha

Does Merry Berry wear PLT?

And thinking about it we should be chunking off c.£100m a year in FCF so get that spent too

Scalable platform rag. Need to embrace it. It’s a beautiful thing. We are now fully the Hut Group model. They do on average 5 - 6 deals a year. Each brand gets its own management team and carves its own marketing budget but all get access to the platform

We are now ready and at the promise land. We can sort those brands you mention and we can buy even more with not a penny of extra cost. This is the beauty of this business model (sorry I’m talking models again)

£300m left to spend and let’s get spending it. US warehouse and a US make up brand and a older demographic US clothing would be great (fix our full reliance on trend brands issue for the US too)

Leverage the platform and unleash the multiple arbitrage (its god’s greatest ever invention)

So we’ve got our scalable platform, we have a host of brands, a market place, an amazing in-road into beauty and decent footprint in the US. Where do we go next?

Really interesting now Asos has Topshop

Is Topman included? Assume so and it’s just missed in the article

Still would have loved Topshop! Asos needs to grow its % of own brand so they needed this deal. If we got this we really would have shafted them. Imagine the dint in revenue as we pulled from this website. Shame