Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
No one mentioned to me when I left HSBC that I could no longer have my 5 course dinners at GHQ in Canary Wharf
FACT.
IRRELEVANT FACT. Carry on cutting and pasting and adding irrelevant points. Have a nice day.
Now... a country leaving the EU after 45 years is not like a person leaving a job. It is far more complicated. When you leave a job you do not have to maintain a vast number of connections across trade, security, defence, medical and pharmaceuticals, the EIB etc etc. etc.
If we do leave with a no deal.. or so called clean brexit, before a trade deal is discussed, the EU will insist a deal is reached on citizen rights and payments and we will want to agree an approach to the Irish border to prevent that not being in line.. We also have to agree our schedule for WTO with the EU and 163 countries.
The consequences of leaving the EU are not clear yet until we settle on an approach, so the implications obviously were not known 3 years ago.
As just one example. A customs union which features heavily in possible outcomes proposed now was never even mentioned before the vote.
LTI
First let me remind you of the point I made which has caused so many posts pointlessly trying to deny a simple fact.
I said that customs union was not mentioned in Dave's pamphlet nor was it mentioned ir discussed to any extent at all before the vote. Provable fact.
If is not a business though. Compare it with views on any government. In America and Britain it's closer to 70 % who disapprove of their own governments according to polls. It improved 7%.
It is you who is lying. No one suggested Obama was not talking about trade talks when he talked about trade talks.
He makes it very clear he is talking he is talking abiut America's priorities and actions.
Customs unions are not mentioned. You just proved my point on the subject with that post.
About two thirds think it improved trade and quality and range of goods. Not brilliant results overall. Juncker and Verhofstaed in particular have been very poor representatives of the EU and have failed to explain the EU in a positive way. It needs more able statesmen or women to lead it with better communication skills. That's part of the problem in my view anyway.
Levis
Thanks for that. An interesting well documented poll. The 48% who believe the EU is off track track is better than two years ago when ut was 57%. It is still not good. Its worse when people talk about their own governments. Wonder how many think the UK government are off track .. probably 80% ? The trouble being no one agrees on the way to fix that. Here's the full poll.
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/attitudes-europe-eve-2019-european-elections
Boomerbower
Of course you get more upvotes. The people who sign in to this board are almost all leavers who vote up silly insults and proven fake facts if they support rants on Brexit.
Unfortunately trying to run a country based on fake facts leads to chaos as we see very plainly.
Boomerbower
As I just mentioned the argument in parliament is mainly over A new customs union or "partnership" like one other non EU states already have which would not stop us having separate deals.
Suppose Obama understood our CU issues but didn't mention them, that does not mean the CU was discussed before the vote or explained to voters. It wasn't and that is the simple fact I mentioned.
Your post now includes insults ... as always when you realise you have nothing sensible and relevant to the discussion to say.
"Obama was saying if we vote leave and are therefore out of the CU we will be at the back of the queue in trade negotiations"
No he was not... he made no mention of the CU and and no duscussion of CU arose out if his comment. If you think otherwise show us where customs unions was mentioned afterwards in relation to his comment.
He was referring to America's priorities on trade as a queue. Obama or Trump... it makes no difference. Trump will give us a quick deal, if we agree bad terms in America's favour. America will expect us to do what we are told. That's all a different subject.
You should have left it with the yawn comment. The conversation here has so far been about whether either the EU customs union or indeed any cu was mentioned in Dave's pamphlet or discussed before the vote. Clearly it wasn't.
The argument in parliament now is more about whether we have a new separate permanent customs union as Labour propose like three other states have but better, a customs partnership, more or less the same but Tories name for it, or no CU.
None seem better than what we now have to me but that is a separate point entirely.
TFE
"So many references regarding leaving the customs union before the vote"
No there were not.. I have just largely proved there weren't with fullfacts and brexitcentral's review of the subjects. Remain didn't mention it. Leave didn't.
There are dozens.. hundreds after the vote. No meaningful references before it. Show us some times it was mentioned sensibly before the vote then.. list some.. if you think they exist.
Boomerbower
Obama was referring to America's trade policy not the EU's or ours.
Other countries are in a customs union with the EU but not in the EU. Labour think they can negotiate something like that but better.
Liam Fox has changed his mind about it.
I am not defending any of this, just saying it was hardly mentioned before the vote and what people assumed they voted for was far less clear than some believe. This doesn't argue either side. It's just the nature of the mess.p
There are no problems if you use your phone and stay signed in. Filters reduce being dragged into subjects being changed, pointless lengthy discussions and worse. On the subject. I guess you haven't found any other references to customs unions before the vote. There weren't any really. The subject came up after.. Liam Fox was one of the first to mention it when he said we might stay in a customs union like other countries after we leave. He has changed his view since. It's not clear what brexit will be like now let alone 3 years ago.
The last two lines of the post were bits left out.. toned down.
But to the point uiu made.... you say ...
"Wonder how you get trade deals if you're in the customs union.
It's a given, everyone knew that"
Show me where this was explained to anyone let alone everyone before the vote..
Thefarend .. took the filters off just now for a quick look through at who commented. I knew someone besides hooky would misremember.
So..provide us with examples of all these references...
.. don't waste time lookjng too long. If you bothered to read the fullfacts article you will find what I said is borne out.
Or here .. you can find the sole utterly obscure references brexitcentral could scrape up.. no clarity for what leavers meant though. They tried their hardest as well.
https://brexitcentral.com/enough-revisionism-referendum-vote-leave-eus-customs-union/
And here's Boris repeatedly saying he wanted us to stay in the single market.. just like Daniel Hannan.
https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-single-market-brexit-campaign-customs-union-2018-1?r=US&IR=T
No Tfe .. the nonsense ralked about trade deals did not mention tge customs union. Easy best deals .. negotiations straight after the vote and signed a minute after we leave..
Go ahead find the times the customs union was explained and it was said we would leave it.
references to the
Are you so stuoid as to have not read the
False memory or fake fact whichever way you look at it.. The customs union was not mentioned in Dave's pamphlet. It was scarcely mentioned at all in the refrrendum campaigns.
In a long list of leave speeches on the Vote leave campaign website it was mentioned once and that completely confused single market with customs union by saying the single market was a customs union. As often stated no one properly understood the full implications if leaving.. it took weeks for interviewers and politicians to work out what customs uniin and single market were. Some if them do not understand properly yet and a number of pro no deal politicians still obviously do not understand WTO.
https://tinyurl.com/y5m67tbp .... Dave's pamphlet
https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/