Member Info for Camkite

(Hope I'm wrong)

Rhodi - DA isn't worth much without Microsoft. Microsoft are not forced into a position and bent over a barrel to bid ridiculous amounts for it because DA needs MicroSoft & they know this. Thye aren't going to throw $2b at it when they don't have to, simples.

Negotiating and getting decent amounts for "anything" comes down to much more than just what we believe it should be worth, it's worth what someone will pay for it and if MS needed DA and DA didn't need MS of course it would be different.

Bottom line. If it was going to be anywhere near $2b TERN would not be trading at 10p that is plain as day to see as people in the know would see there is a 3000%+ gain to be had and we would be seeing fireworks followed by a swift suspension.

That we don't talk about anywhere near enough ... voted in the top 5 cutting edge VR platforms.

That alone clearly underpins TERN's valuation at this level all on its own... the USA pay silly money for technology, no doubt & it might be the one that surprises is quite considerably in the near term.

Coshy - Honestly - No idea mate. Wish I could help.

Personally.

If it underpinned value on the TERN SP at 30p I wouldn't be dissapointed. anywhere from 50p - £1 I would consider it a huge success.

Again. DA needs Microsoft. DA is not in the most secure negotiating position if it were solely the other way around things would be completely different.

IMO. Best to quell the expectations and be pleasantly surprised as opposed to not selling convinced its worth unrealistic amounts.

Rhodi - as much as im invested and researched as important as this is for me is understanding the market and PA... the market doesn't lie. Or very very rarely. @It is made up of information that isn't even in the public domain yet.

DA clearly has sort after technology, in as you say a red hot sector and I do think that it holds value well north of here... however the current share price tells us a stark picture.

The PA currently is positive... every big sell is met with big buys and provided we do not drop back, (for a change) those short term spike traders who seemingly live over at ADVFN won't be able to get back in... so their shares have gone to sticky hands and we will finally be able to clear the 11-12p level. Positive.

But it is unrealistic to imagine that MS or any other suiter would bid $2b for a company that has no known revenues when 54% of that same company is owned by TERN which is listed on a public exchange with a market cap of Sub £40m.

Every companies main objective is to make profit... DA will enable MS to offer a better service to their already created infrastructure... but they aren't going to throw a 3000% increase at it for seemingly no reason just because people on here and ADVFN pull figures out of the sky.

IF we had over the last 6 months moved up to 30-40p then I would agree that the reason is because a deal is being done at £1.50 / £2 or alike... equally if we started to move up to 30/40p on no news (now) with the buyer happy to keep taking everyone's sells on the way up then i would change my stance... but from where we are it just isn't realistic.

Given we have no revenues to go off because DA at present hasn't made any regarding DA there is little to believe that MS would just throw crazy money at it when lets be realistic... they could probably buy it for £200-300m.

Lets remember DA does not hold much value without MicroSoft so they are in the driving seat they do not have to throw crazy money at something just to please its investors... without them its not worth much.

If it were being sold for silly money TERN would not be 10p the market isn't stupid its made up of many clever people with deep pockets.

Nearly $2b ? If that were remotely true Rhodi, TERN would not be 10p.

Lets keep it real eh and leave the self perpetuating echo chamber to ADVFN.

1m in sells ... from what I can tell from the ADVFN trippers and traders.

MM's do us a favour and don't let them back in!

We've had 4 x 100k+ sales through already this morning and bid hasn't dropped....

Still.

1.5m buy @ 13.5p

1.5m sell @ 9p

Hopefully buyers should make an appearance again soon... nice to see the bid staying strong.

Makes you wonder if someone has asked to collect shares with an average of X price esp considering the sells from this morning and no drop / more than happy to collect volume.

"Listen, I do understand there are various techniques for valuation"

Ok well I'm pleased you've cleared that up.

Of course... if DA was turning £000m's in profit every year this would not be valued at £35m ...

Without pulling it completely out of context... the conversation stemmed from G.Rees saying and having said multiple times that TERN's investments are worthless based entirely on Profit / revs (this just isn't the case at all... you came in an defended this saying " fundamentally companies are valued on NPV (discounted future profits), other than profit how do you value a company?"

DA could be worth multiples of the current mcap and that value will not be judged by profit but of course... as you say "Lets face it if the NPV on DA alone indicated significant positive NPV we would not be priced where we are now."

Yes it would be easier to value but that doesn't mean there isn't value.

G.Rees argument is entirely to discredit TERN no matter how he does this... I think you should be questioning his motives as his argument is complete junk and I would hazard a guess he already knows this.

always makes me laugh when you see people on these forums valuing companies and then coming up with wild PE's

eg: "2m oz gold at 30k extraction a year gives us X and then add on a PE of 50.. we should be £5" current share price 4p lol

You can expect higher PE valuations from companies in safe jurisdictions, does it hold intellectual property, can it be easily copied, how secure is the company, what market its in & what kinds of companies / businesses or technology is it dealing with.

If you compare this to G.Rees argument which is entirely financial based it is a junk argument as all of TERNs technology ticks these boxes despite, to date turning a large profit.

I don't think DA is worth the $5b that the trippers on ADVFN think but that is not to say it isnt worth multiples of the current market cap. I would be more surprised if it wasn't Microsoft wouldn't give it the webinar publicity it has already have if it was as he says "worthless".

Gekkonls out of interest. Why do you believe some companies have far higher PE ratios than others ?

Companies are valued in lots of ways, seems you and g.Rees are 2 that only look at profit.

For example a company running a small profit but that was scalable would be valued much higher.

Likewise a company that was versatile & could be moved would demand a higher valuation.

Or indeed..

A company that had never made a profit but had ip which was needed EVEN if that ip was not profitable, would carry value.

DA is seemingly a good use arsed for that last point, it’s used, it’s needed and regarded highly from Microsoft, but never made a profit.. it holds value because of its usage & use cases... absolutely nothing to do with the financials.

Yeah I read those as very good results YoY. £0.6m loss, over 80% on previous year.

Levs - naff off.

It’s such a junk argument. Tech companies can be sold for ludicrous sums having never spun a profit & yet your argument is based on exactly the opposite.

You have to go on filter as your stupidity will just frustrate me.

It’s not the point & you know it. There are far more to companies valuations than profit. Far more.

Out of interest - what reason would you give for being so he’ll bent on TERN being worth zero when there’s so much junk on the market?

Is it... you’re such a nice chap you go out of your way for completely selfless reasons ?

Haha yeah righto.

I posted them on here 2 weeks ago.

Did you ever read wattsapp SM’s financial report before being bought out for $13b ?

you ever tried contacting his majesty Roo ?s

This one Rhodi ?

“ We are working hard to ensure that the value created is unlocked in time through third-party investments and ultimately the exit from our holdings."