In RBS's case, Dividends are a somewhat recent phenomenon after the debacle of 2008 when, in truth, it should have been broken up. So I accept that although it was not RBS' decision to cancel, the levels of Dividend being paid were always susceptible to reduction, albeit outright cancellation was not on anyone's radar.
For those who are recent investors here, be they looking for a quick profit on assumption the current SP simply HAS to recover or, those who are simply hoping to see a longer term recovery in its SP should, IMO, reflect on the single fact that Banks' profits/performances are inherently cyclical by nature and whether you should be investing in them ahead of what is likely to be a record breaking recession for the UK (if not Global) economy, is a question many should be asking themselves, again, very much IMO.
I hope those who have bought in, know what to expect in a Bank when a full blown recession hits......and it will.
B
For a share that once traded above £20 (each), it looks as if a further defining moment in the Bank's history will shortly be made as the SP will crash below its equivalent of 10p (ie ignoring the 1 : 20 share consolidation stunt).
Exploring the scale and length of time for this decline (close to 20 years) might enlighten those promoting the case for a quick turnaround in the SP.
I wouldn't mind in the slightest if I was proved to be wrong with recovery of the SP.
B
The Gov's volte face on the Banks' (as a whole; not just RBS) payment of Dividends rather reflects the similar U-turn on the UK's approach to the Coronavirus pandemic.
Both decisions accept the reality of today's crises and are undoubtedly the correct ones albeit for investors, disappointing.
As I have mentioned before, despite RBS and other major UK Banks being significantly better capitalised than before 2008's credit/finance crash, no Banks have modelled what is in effect close the entire shut down of global trade and economies of most developed countries.
So preserving cash has to be an absolute priority although the cancellation of the Dividend is likely to be a drop in the bucket when the non performing debt figures start to mushroom (and Banks have to allocate Capital against these etc).
Lets hope Sweden rapidly alters course on its Covid-19 measures before their casualties get too significant. Reading their leaders' comments, its almost as if they are time travellers from the WW 1 battlefields.
We really should expect more from our leaders, especially in times of crisis.
B
I think, for fairly obvious political reasons, the Dividend will be paid. Part of the Gov ethos at present is simply to provide the notion they are still in control and things may be very unpleasant but we will work through it etc. (not that whole segments of the population will buy that for a moment).
The Gov will need their Div cash and its just about too early for the Banks to really see the extent of damage that will be inflicted by the economy effectively shutting down.
However, it would in fact be prudent for RBS to preserve cash (and not pay the Dividend) given the sheer scale of financial tsunami which will hit everyone and especially Banks, in the very near future.
Its one thing to say that RBS etc are well capitalised, and they certainly are in contrast to 10-12 years ago in the last finacial/credit crisis, but Basle lll and the BoE stress tests of Banks' capital adequacy and liquidity never envisaged the kind of total economic shutdown Covid-19 has already wreaked, not just on the UK, but globally.
With the BoE about to do the supposedly unthinkable - buy UK Govs own Bonds - we are truly entering the realms of the unknown.
This (financial) crisis has only begun.
B
Rarely in Corporate land would the lack of income ever be viewed as a 'plus', but you are absolutely right Daz, what we don't have, we cannot lose.
Our cashflow projections should be more stable than many with stability in keeping staff healthy possibly its biggest risk (which everyone else also has etc).
When sales etc are forecast will be the biggest guess looking at the world today as it seems to collapse into tomorrow.
B
Absolutely agree Maverick.
So many BoD's seem to conveniently forget they have responsibilities for the Public (and not Private) Cos they operate. That means, amongst other things, they are accountable to shareholders and have a duty to keep them informed.
......what a joke.
B
With what seems the inexorable drop in SP towards (and perhaps) beyond its Nominal Value, apart from simply giving an opportunity to 'top up', it does have severe implications for the Bank in raising further capital should it be required were, for example, the SP to be less than a £1.
A situation that doesn't see too far away in these volatile times.
What is really concerning, are the implications for the economy arising from the draconian steps being introduced re: the Covid-19 pandemic.
No-one is disputing the rightful focus on health and welfare coupled with the ability via NHS to provide it etc.
What's still to come, both in terms of social and economic implications of further restrictions yet to be announced, will push the UK economy and many others into deep recession with many customers of the Bank across whole swathes of the economy failing very quickly.
I've no idea of the Bank's (current) capital adequacy position amongst other measures, but there will be little doubt the Bank will suffer severe strain irrespective of potential Gov support (for some of these customers).
Until the virus implications become clearer, IMO anyone buying Bank shares for the foreseeable future are simply taking a gamble .....and a fairly aggressive one at that.
I think we all have a lot more to worry about than the Dividend upcoming.
B
The previous absence of any RNS concerning Tom Anderson's shareholding had long puzzled me as I had (mistakenly) believed he may have been reducing his stake fuelling, at least in part, the drop in SP since we agreed to accept Oaktree's 30 pieces of silver.
The fact that he is now stakebuilding clearly moves a potential threat to the SP into a completely different category and a positive one at that.
We are course not privvy to the games being played but I think many PI's have been surprised to date that noone had yet broken surface. We all know the holes in your pocket money can burn etc.
A Public Listing and €6m (gross) in cash along with our albeit modest gold interests should surely tempt some serious players as many on this BB have voiced.
Lets hope we are about to see some action and soon. Lets also hope it might just benefit some of the (very) long suffering shareholders here.
B
On the basis the Covid-19 virus and its wider effects continue along the path expected, once this stock goes ex div on 26 March, we can indeed expect to see the SP drop materially, even from its present depressed levels.
I desperately want this stock to rise but I am having great difficulty thinking of any reasons why it should.
B
Still the SP falls with no real end in sight it seems.
While it is fully understandable that everyone's focus is on health and welfare, the sheer extent of potential economic catastrophe arising from the implications of Covid-19 is now coming into view.
With many of the world's largest economies seemingly trialling hibernation as a full time experiment, we are really witnessing an abrupt jump into unchartered waters when the outcome can be nothing other than recessionary.
The implications for Banks are not good and for the rest of us, there is little to comfort given Governments and Central Banks collective inability to dig us out of the financial crash of 2008.
It may not be as dramatic as watching RBS share price fall off a cliff on the fateful Friday in 2008 before the Gov bail out that weekend, but its fairly painful to see us start to challenge SP levels closer to a £1. It wasn't supposed to be like that.
B
Exiting Barruecopardo was not down to choice - Orm (or rather Saloro) were about to default - Oaktree's offer was one they simply couldn't refuse.......yes, not even our BoD are that stupid.
Now perhaps others can enlighten. Does PC's share purchase imply that no deal is imminent given the 'insider dealing' rules etc?
Normally when Directors purchase shares, it is viewed positively but clearly, and with some justification, many are sceptical if not downright hostile.
After all, who do the funds (from the disposal of Orm's interest in Barrucopardo) actually belong to if not the shareholders. All too ironic for words.
B
Thank you JAdam for clarifying your earlier remarks - I understand where you are coming from.
B
JAdam - thats a fairly big insult to people who have undertaken a lot of effort on behalf of other shareholders.
Try reading some back postings before you start spouting comments like yours.
Theres a lot more to Rur than a superficial glance at headline figures - we are due much more than this BoD can ever deliver.
Smarties today and fake smarties tomorrow it seems if the Argentina gov have their way. Slightly more civilised than the theft by Bolivia all those years ago but thats all you can say.
Before the 'artificial' share consolidation a few years ago (to make the shares more appealing to II's etc), todays price is equivalent to 16p against a Nominal value of 25p.
The 1:10 consolidation (and the hike in Nom. Value to £1) clearly hasn't worked and to me its always been better to view RBS as the penny share it really is.
As others have said, who knows where the bottom to this cycle will be but one thing is for certain that once the economic effects of Covid 19 really kick in, Banks will inevitably suffer further.
And thats ignoring Brexit for a moment - anecdotally, I am aware of many Cos already exhausting their stock piles for Brexit due to Covid 19 and supply chains are only beginning to breakdown.
I've lost more than enough money on this share, but it looks as if I'm losing some more. And we're not finished yet.
B
Absolutely right bbr - this would be a perfectly reasonable expectation of a BoD in a Public Co., even one listed on AIM.
However, the BoD's cynicism is exposed by their ongoing silence despite the PR blurb contained within the 2018 Audited Accounts when they waxed lyrical about adoption of the QCA Code (which outlines and underscores the need for and the steps that should be taken to enshrine involvement with stakeholders etc.).
........what a bl**dy joke!
B
Whilst we all hope this is not a rerun of 2008/09, the collapse of the SP (of almost 25%) in little more than 2 weeks, has once again given lth in particular that uneasy feeling the falling knife has quite a way to go yet before it hits the floor.
Never mind, we have A Rose and a soon to be rebranded name to get us out of the quicksand. Oh, no doubt its not anyone's fault here, its simply that nasty coronovirus which after all, no-one in the Bank could have foreseen.
Never mind, in a couple of weeks the SP should tick up - just before the collapse should resume once it goes ex-div.
Yes HM Gov are desperate to sell their remaining holding to shore up their post Brexit plans, so the Market is well aware etc. that disposals will happen sooner than later.
And everyone thought it such a bargain when the SP approached £2.........
B
To be fair, we recognise the need to network and this event is a biggy, but you don't conduct negotiations with a drink in your hand (......well, not best advised), so our BoD had better have something to say fairly soon on what the future may hold.
I am well aware these things take time but shareholders need to be kept informed, subject to the constraints on insider info etc.
At least with €6m in their back pockets, they shouldn't be short of potential suitors at PDAC.
B
Thats the real issue for the Newbies in search of a quick buck - and I don't blame anyone for trying etc- its once you do the most basic research, they must realise that despite all the positives now in place for Orm, the guys at the helm don't seem capable of charting a safe passage in open waters never mind dodge the icebergs in todays commercially hard nosed world.
I've been hoping for a takeover of Orm for some time or a merger with a party that has a proven track record etc.
Wishful thinking no doubt.
B
From the Co's updated website, their sketched out options for future development recognises at least that cash is in very short supply within the junior resource sector which should certainly provide better than normal opportunities to maximise any investment.
I would certainly favour a split of investments among hopefully an income generating asset be it by way of JV or otherwise as well as the hinted acquisition of virgin land for exploration.
Properly structured deals at the right sort of prices must present the much maligned BoD with their chance for redemption. Lets hope they take it...........well perhaps maybe Etc!
B
B
Fairly difficult to understand why anyone would want to buy more than £6k of stock in Rur.
Irrespective of what view you may have of our BoD, the fact remains shareholders have not got any idea of what is actually going on with our Co and whether or not there is any realistic chance of getting any monies out of Argentina, even assuming there are any.
Oh, all a bit like our phantom assets.......together rather a cautionary tale for potential investors in AIM Cos I would have thought.
B