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The latest theory on silvers demand and price fluctuations? Is such due to industrial demand for AI super computers, or is it due to Samsung inventing a EV battery that trebles the capacity of current EV cells and can be charged within minutes due to silver. Or is it the U.S dollar is being broken by the East by buying PM's knowing the West has oversold paper and cannot meet it's obligations. Or is it the threat of WW3 and those wealthy are hiding their own stash around the world.

Or are central banks buying PM's to create a digital currency with such backing it. Or has the huge demand in Solar panels here in the UK due to the long sunny days we are experiencing added to the shortage of silver.

Perhaps a little of all.

Heard a lot of theories but my PXC USA silver and copper miner still falls away .

After such a rise in s.p, and because of such, yields are now lower than if putting the cash in a bank account that won't suddenly remove much of your capital investment, can't blame anyone selling. And yes I know before Lti starts spouting about the investor returns being more due to the buyback, but I wonder if much of that return via price increase in shares is baked in on the announcement of buybacks, NOT on the commencement or final day of such.

Whilst buybacks should increase the s.p by the percentage of buybacks, who is to say that the board, knowing that there are less shares in circulation don't just allocate a bit less of the profits than they otherwise would have to fund the now miserly dividend, thus it is the bank more than the shareholders who truly gain from buybacks. Anyway, unless the shares, which is likely, drop a lot, will be buying back far less now. So expect applause from Lti, whatever the Gods on the board and markets do regarding Lloyds.

Exist in both the debt from the shadow banks who have been borrowing from banks, to lend to risky businesses which if AI bubble bursts many will be unable to meet their debt, with the burden falling onto main banks. Added to this the rise in Gold and now Silver and all PM's, which have been rising at the same time as have shares, explained by this post I borrowed from Fresh bb, which explains the issue simply:

"I cant undetstand why they were allowed to issue more paper contracts than there is physical."

Islandgirl - it has been going on for years with both Gold and Silver. Banks have taken advantage of the fact that most people do not want to store gold or silver bars at home. This gives them the opportunity to offer paper ownership certificates when someone wants to buy gold or silver, and charge a storage fee as well. Sensing an opportunity to make a fast buck, the banks issued far more certificates than the gold or silver they actually held.

Every ounce of gold stored by banks had until recently over 100 paper owners. So a bank could buy 1,000 oz of real gold and sell 100,000 of paper gold, and charge storage fees for the 99,000 oz that they did not actually hold. The value of the 99,000oz of fraudulent gold could then be loaned out at a fee to borrowers or mortgage applicants. What a great scam and an easy way to make money!

Fearing a bubble, which if burst could destabilise the world banking system, the Bank of International Settlements issued BASEL 3 regulations, which promoted physical gold to a Tier 1 asset and dropped paper gold to a Tier 3 asset.

While still not fully implemented the new rules and tiered BASEL 3 categories have changed the gold outlook completely, and imo are a large part of the reason for the meteoric rise in the gold price.

There are reportedly over 300 paper ownership certificates for Silver, but it is not covered by BASEL3.

Hence the huge disconnect from real PM's and paper, and the desperate need for paper prices to force the price of PM's down as the world situation grows more risky, many demand PM's for safety, which cannot be met as the East have bought up the real thing, leaving the West with only paper promises.

PS even one of the board dumped over 3m days ago, likely knowing as did Lti, banks well over priced

As I said, a Red Herring. Banks s.p over hyped in relationship to the true state of the UK. A correction was certain, and Sir K's woes and BoE were used as the reason, but not imo the true reason for the sell off.

Red Herrings are essential for the big buyers to then be able to unload to the dimmer p.i's who wrongly assume that the reasons of BoE rate and Sir K's woes are the reason so snap up the cast offs, thinking that the sell off is over done, and they have found a bargain to either buy in or top up, until they see the next week it is far far lower and eventually the real reason for the drop is all too clear to all but only after the clever important money is safely out at a good price.

Troublesome, the UK, like a person heavily in debt, borrowing more and ignoring the true plight they are in, as they spend other peoples money, for a while makes them appear affluent and seemingly have no fiscal worries.

For a while.

Eventually the UK's plight once revealed, and gilts are hard to sell, will show the truth, and Lloyds will sadly follow the UK down.

Re: "The only reason there was a drop here today was because the markets thought Sir Keir might resign from his job followed by Rachel.

Surely everyone must have realised that !!"

Well I never realised that Sir K's hopeful departure would bring down the US and EU markets as well as the mostly focused Lloyds by so much.

I guess I have a lot to learn for the wise on here, assuming there are some.

Lovely to see how biased everyone is and like the illegal issue, can ignore, not mention or highlight anything bad such do, but happy to highlight those who don't fit in with their agendas even minor flaws.

Not just you troublesome but most all who post here. Guess it's human nature as M.J suggested

Guess if it is the start of a crash, it will be little to do with Sir K's staying or going, but the over inflated prospects for the UK when all the signs, show differently and with AI soon to make the need for human labour far less, the fact we have to fund not only our own unneeded labour force but much of the wider worlds now.

Lloyds being still so UK based will reflect the true situation, not posters on here, no matter what their agenda or preferences are.

Re This drop is utterly ridiculous.

One could easily argue that the big rise was utterly ridiculous with a dire Gov, and even worse economy outlook and truly endless dirt poor filling our country when unemployment for AI is going to cause massive labour surplus, costly to fund for the UK

Seems to me that the excuse that banks fell on the knowledge of soon to be rate cuts is not the reason we fell.

This seems more likely: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/hedge-funds-2tn-bet-on-government-bonds-risks-implosion-warns-watchdog/ar-AA1VI0Pw?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ASTS&cvid=6984c66569644c379c66d6a93c8c837a&ei=9

We have all been amazed at the speed and level UK banks both Lloyds and NWG have suddenly risen. Most charts when looking back show a large rise before a large fall.

So how low, not how high will be the real question on the minds, if not the lips of those invested here now.

Surely, as with oil, it is in the interests of providers of the raw material to keep the supply low as is feasible to ensure the price of the supplied material remains both high, and by limiting spending on doubling up production or more. That way they can achieve good profits by providing the same amount, and not incurring more costs, and keeping the life expectancy of the mine going for longer.

IF all mines suddenly increase output, then the price will drop, costs for the miners will increase, and the life of their mine will decrease, and by increasing mining capacity, the workforce, the expensive additional plant on a then lower price (due to extra supply worldwide) will not be so cost effective as producing less but being able to charge more. There will be a balance whereby demand and output can ensure stability knowing where that occurs is unknown.

So I may have missed the point, but have you considered the above?

Re "He correctly called Triple digits Silver would happen and stated that Silver needs to move higher to incentivise the producers to put the neccesary infrastructure in place to enable production to increase."

Perhaps those who whinge that whilst silver is up by X percent, Fres is only risen by x percent, can then understand that miners have huge costs, as well as huge profits, and selling a refined bar or coin does not need huge costs, whereas to increase output for miners require a huge investment to do so, and whilst future profits will triple IF output triples, the time and cost has to be considered and therefore reflected in the share price compared to selling a chunk of processed silver.

One being does anyone know, why Lloyds spiked down suddenly around 15min ago from 108 to 106, yet they buys and sells when such happened were all in single digit numbers, not the hundreds of k or more, one would expect would be needed to drop the share price that much?

I guess a hidden large sell which will be shown up end of day perhaps, which with a broker downgrade to 91 may be quite telling for our future. Car scam payout etc.

Secondly re pension being classed as a benefit, how come we are told if we haven't paid enough in stamps, then we don't get a full UK state pension, so proving that our payments are going to fund our future income, so hardly the same as a benefit in the true sense, whereby any low life, not paying in is entitled to the myriad of income streams or relief from paying what the rest of us have to, just be being and breeding here.

So I think many who try to blame pensioners are doing so to try ineffectively to quell the very real complaints by the British people who have paid in against the endless amounts who have not, will not, and will breed endless amounts who will only take from the diminished pot, never pay in to such.

So don't feel bad if you are a pensioner, as not only have you paid in to keep the British elderly when you paid in you stamp or NI, but you were keeping the spongers then too, and now those working are keeping current pensioners, and future generations will be funding future pensioners , but now of course with the worlds low life the system is near to breaking, as so those who love such have to blame ex workers for bringing the system down, as of course the others are blameless.

Car scam news due March end of, could be the fly for Lloyds

I own a small amount of Gold, and have read on bullion by post, that they are no longer buying scrap gold or silver. Do you not find that odd, as one would assume if the bull run on PM's is set to continue, then they would wish to buy all available?

I assume the only other explanation is that if refineries of PM's can't cope with refining the wheat from the chaff from scrap PM's quickly enough, then Bullion by post don't wish to be holding the baby should the price of PM's drop, as they have, whilst awaiting scrap unrefined PM's to be assessed in value as with pure known PM's they can always buy and sell quickly, making their margins easily with little risk?

Lloyds has done well, and many weak hands sold with the fear of the yet to come car scam costings. Luckily I never panicked and still holding all my shares but shame that Gold has dropped but only paid 495 £ per Oz Coin so still well up.

Asimpleinvestor, thanks for the reply and only hope you are correct, but using eyes and ears in area where I live and seems that all too many who live in social housing, despite having more time than those private working people amongst whom they now live, are more likely to be the ones who let their gardens become a mess, whose children do most of the vandalising of playgrounds, and who have the most children.

Instead of as you suggest seeing the poverty as the problem, I would wager that if many of these were given more surplus cash than their neighbours who work but have to pay full wack for their rent or mortgages, all their c.tax and fund their children not get paid to have such, that many of these social housing tenants would still live a similar lifestyle, as it is they, not their location or fiscal position which dictates how they choose to live, and no Government UNLESS they want to live differently will alter that.

But perhaps I am wrong, and take many of your other points onboard, and hope I am overly worried for nothing over Lloyds involvement in such.

Thank you for your input.

"The bank says the deal is part of its commitment to”support the transformation of the UK’s social housing stock.”

The housing stock is not the issue here, but the quality, or lack of it, of an increasing percentage of the tenants. Many of whom now believe, thanks to do gooders and of course a Labour woke Government, that the world owes them, and everything they breed a living and comfortable home for eternity.

So that home costing not only hundreds of thousands to build, burdening tax payers, then have their rent and council tax fully paid or heavily subsidised so never pay back the cost of the property.

Now in increasing numbers we will be paying to build a home, and then pay the rent for persons we never invited here in the first instance, and as their scattered brood reaches puberty, ever more homes will be needed until the system fails and the UK resembles the hell hole of crime, overcrowding, misery and poverty which coincidently follows these unfortunate tenants.

Still to see the grateful, appreciation on so many faces and knowing they will take care of the properties as if they had worked hard and bought such themselves, will almost make the cost on all of us worth it.

Let's hope another Gov don't put a rent cap on these homes, but insist that any tenant aided issues like damp, damage, the deliberate destruction of lifts and properties, and any self inflicted injuries by children behaving like animals is met by those who do pay their rent, and not fall on the tax payer, or worse still Lloyds shareholders if sued for what the lowest level of mankind chooses to live like but blames everyone but.

Lets hope that this deal to do the Governments dirty work, is beneficial not just for the CEO and board, but the innocent Lloyds shareholders too. Some how I doubt it will be for reasons stated.

Truly think that is why HMG never increased taxes on banks as HMG can't afford the house ex hotel residents, but they know allowing bank CEO

s more bonuses, then, that CEO in turn, knows a lot of shareholders who can and will do what HMG can't, and fund breeding hutches. Fine until the next Gov increase bank tax, AND we are still funding the tenants. Worse of both worlds to come imo.

Nice to see our countryside and wildlife displaced and more sewage, energy, landfill, water, traffic, under more pressure, instead of getting the message to the poor if you can't afford it, use the free contraception available. Giving more makes the use of such foolish to the subsidised in life, hence they don't bother.

Clued, could it not be more a case of President Trump is going to use the heavy crude as more of a bargaining chip with China, who hold a lot of aces, but who have built a lot of refineries to process heavy crude.

China are banning the export of silver, and Mexico are due to place a large tax on such exports, so perhaps President Trump is not bothered about processing this as much as preventing it giving the Chinese everything it needs, without some form of trading to keep the USA supplied in other commodities.

Re, hope it doesn't get taken over like Solg.

As I stated on 5th Jan "Perhaps this is why the funding is being dragged out, and perhaps the board of PXC have knowledge of a buyout from the USA on security grounds, hence they invested more knowing they will make a return on such, but never themselves be calling the shots here."

Who knows, not I

Longterm, clearly you have traded and bought well here. So when you sell do you invest in other shares, or hold the cash to buy back in here again expecting a fall?

The state pension is far lower than the National living wage , and as most all pensioners have paid in for years, instead of thinking as many benefit claiming do, that the world owes them and anything they produce a free home and a reasonable standard of living for life, yet most have paid in little if anything, but take out huge amounts when subsidised rent, and council tax, tax credits, or U.C is factored in, then I think the pensioners are getting a raw deal as it is.

Means testing such would be wrong, as people would not bother to save, for the future and whilst HMG would love money squander spent to bolster the feeble economy, the future without people saving in banks such as Lloyds, giving them more to loan out to businesses to grow the economy in meaningful ways, instead of HMG forcing people to spend their savings, and once gone, never replaced is economically wrong.

Fine if people were not paying in for years, and were told they had to fund a private pension, but most pensioners assumed that they paid in NI to fund their state pension, regardless of their wealth. So to do such now would be great so long as people are fully informed, BUT who would fund the growing levels of spongers when they age? It would be us paying for those we never wanted as well as having to fund a private pension for ourselves too. Hardly fair and would create more disharmony.

Odd seeing over a pound here. Still inflation makes the pound worth far less as we all know, so had to happen with inflation still here I guess.

Re comment stating "Uncertain world, massive drive for onshore production in the US, becomes a national security issue."

Do shareholders here not think there could be a real risk that the Great President, being shrewd and putting America first as any elected leader ought to do for their electorate, that perhaps he will prevent the foreign ownership of mining of important metals in the USA, or tax such to prevent foreigners dictating their price and allocation to the USA?

It would seem a small step for such a strong leader to take, and as, if not more justifiable than taking tinpot leaders from their own countries.

Perhaps this is why the funding is being dragged out, and perhaps the board of PXC have knowledge of a buyout from the USA on security grounds, hence they invested more knowing they will make a return on such, but never themselves be calling the shots here.

Been more than a slow burner and with PM's and copper so high, can't imagine any worth will be allowed to fall into others hands easily with a shrewd, wise patriotic POTUS putting his country and people first, something the West hasn't seen for decades and sadly we never again will now.