Member Info for Bigwil7

Glib, the company being used for the CS project in Crete is Loyalward which is owned by Minoan Group. Two of the directors of Loyalward have considerable shareholdings in Minoan Group - N Day 5.7% and P Raby 6.02%. Other members of the BoD of Min have large options organised by the Co that will bear fruit if the share price reaches 50p for (I think) about 10 days but it would have been more comforting admittedly if the main men held a few more. However, the two directors of Loyalward will be looking after their own interests presumably relating to the CS project and that should be only to the benefit of current shareholders of Min.
IMHO it makes much more sense from a potential investor of the CS project to wait until the decks are clear ie the T&L sale goes through and completes with the new loan paid of leaving Min debt free and with a substantial asset held in Crete that has a PD and unappealable planning. There should be quite a bit of action on the CS development once of should I say if the T&L business sale goes through. Whats to stop an investor buying in with the deal partly the purchase of Min shares at a premium thereby buying in to the project AND providing the bod additional working capital to market & develop the project??

Yes Arsenal it has taken an age to reach this point but my point is they have now done the hard bit and got the Presidential Decree with the unappealable planning permission. Now all they have to do is find the investor interested in buying in to the project and there should be plenty of property fund managers who are interested in this development. Then its on with the project, paying the balance of the deposit, organising the building permits which take 2-3 months and then building the hotels , apartments & golf complex and golf course. Shouldn't take very long should it ………….??! Have a feeling the T&L sale is one small hurdle in the way of investors and once it completes there will be a clean sheet to start the ball rolling. The first investment we are told about will also be a guide to the value of the project so its important that they wait until the right party comes along. All IMHO

The next few weeks should finally see the long awaited exchange of contracts for the T&L sale. Shareholder approval is a requirement which will take a further 3 weeks max. The doubters will truly be doubting themselves on completion. Its probably going to the wire but if it happens the Hillside loan will be paid off in full leaving the company debt free with NAV of approx £40M,namely the Cavo Sidero project - an asset of mouth-watering potential in North-east Crete that also has a PD and unappealable planning permission. The bod get little credit from the doubters for their achievement but have maintained their efforts over a 20 year period and come through a maize of Greek planning/appeals to reach this stage for their shareholders.
The sites are truly unique and elegent destinations. They are close to Sitia airport. Phase 1 of the development may well be the building of the village and a hotel at Grandes Bay, a Golf complex and Golf conference facilities. Moving on to Phase 2, three villages with a hotel at each at White Sands Bay, Porto Sidero and Crystal Cove. A mouth watering project offering clear potential for realising shareholder value. The T&L completion will clear the path for partners with deep pockets to buy in and finance this exciting prospect.
Property values in Crete have turned a corner and come at a premium rate in the area of outstanding natural beauty and profit on apartment sales will help to fund the project. The levels of tourism coming to Crete go from strength to strength increasing year on year.
And yet......... The share price languishes still at 6p valuing the company at a market cap of £13M. The NAV of £40M approx works out at 18.5p. If I am not mistaken the bod are of the opinion the value of the development with unappealable planning is upwards of £80M+ which works out at about 40p. Such a varying difference but IMHO a complete rerating of the share price will occur on the T&L exchange which is only weeks away.
The T&L completion will see the start of newsflow on the CS development, partners/joint ventures coming to the front of the queue with up front funds, building permits obtained, and the long awaited commencement of the project which should take a couple of years to build.
IMHO the share price will start to improve on the T&L exchange of contracts but DYOR as always.

Hello jscsc, the sale of the T&L business will be the turning point IMHO, that is provided it happens within the time-frame ie sometime in July. The proceeds will pay the loan to Hillside off. Then we have a company free from debt with an asset at Cavo Sidero, Crete which has unappealable planning permission and valued at up to £80M. The present market cap of £13M will,then start to rerate to the upside. I do realise there will be a shortfall possibly July to Dec but that too depends on how much they have surplus at the point of the sale completion. In addition they have recently had a placing at 6p (which caught me too as I was gleely buying at 7p+ when it happened, very few others were) and they raised £500K. The CS project will, apparently,take a couple of years to build starting with phase 1 at Grandes Bay plus the golf complex & course, then they can move on to the other three sites. Admittedly there are the building permits to organise but not sure of the time-scales. I hear what you are saying, its all done at Minoan pace which appears to be a touch slower than the norm! One thing at a time though and the catalyst for all of this is the T&L sale IMHO.

The sale of the T&L business will generate enough to pay off the Hillside loan leaving Minoan group debt free with net assets of £40M approx. Any interested party will have to buy in to the CS project because of the PD and unappealable planning permission that has been granted. This should easily raise the working capital they will need to get the development up and running. The bod is going to change following the sale and will have only those that are appropriate to the development therefore cost savings will (or should) be made. The cost of the loan ie interest charges will not exist from July on. They will also be able to borrow on the asset they hold but I have a feeling the first interested partner they sign up for the CS project will be stumping up enough cash to pay the balance of the deposit due together with enough funds to provide more than the working capital that will be needed. Once the show is on the road it will or should become self financing due to apartments being built and sold at a profit. The Crete property market has recovered substantially especially in that area where properties nearby fetch anything up to £5M plus. All IMHO but the sale of the T&L business will be the catalyst to the financing and success of the mouthwatering Cavo Sidero development. I hope this helps to answer the financing question but its all IMHO.

You make very valid points - as a snapshot and as of today it would appear that it is not going at all well and the market seems to concur with this. Credit however has not been given for achieving last year the PD and unappealable planning at the CS site, that has taken over 20 years and credit should also be given to the bod for persevering and fighting for the PD, its been a long journey and despite the cost it is more or less in its final stage- that of realising value to the company.
I feel that they are on the cusp of achieving success, with the way they are reorganising their affairs. The sale of the T&L business seems to be pivitol if that's the right word. The delay and uncertainty over this sale has not been good though admittedly and needs to be brought to a satisfactory conclusion and SOON.
They have done the hard work on CS project, A major investor will have to buy in to the project and this will give them the working capital to develop the site. Once apartments are built and sold on additional funds will become available on the resultant profit on each sale.
The costs of the project so far are what they are, however if the value of the project was less then provision would have had to have been made. These costs have been bourne by past and existing shareholders but IMHO the value is still in the project and going up - property values in that area are increasing substantially year on year. We are told the value of the CS site is upwards of £80M whereas the market cap of Minoan is only £13M surely this will become apparent on the details of the first investment in the project?
But we wait for these details...………..

You seem to have had a remarkable effect on the share price Truthfactory! I live in hope but never in my wildest dreams thought they would be over £2. With the uncertainty that surrounds the sale of the T&L business its hardly surprising the mm's have taken full advantage dropping the price. What is slightly strange is they appeared to be after shares presumably to sell on at a much higher rate and the price they dropped to on Friday only attracted buyers. Someone sold a sizeable chunk on Thursday afternoon but they didn't show that til Friday,not sure why that is allowable but they appear to be a law unto themselves.

A conclusion to the T&L sale is required one way or the other. This lull just breeds uncertainty. The fact that we haven't heard to the contrary tells us it IS going to conclude in a sale but WHEN?? AND does it matter if they don't sell, the business seems to be going from strength to strength making an operating profit and therefore a contribution to working capital, take out depreciation and its quite considerable. Its the not knowing that breeds the uncertainty and the Minoan time-scales stretch that uncertainty and the MM's take full advantage.
The market doesn't seem to like the 2 businesses together so if the sale falls through there needs to be a split. Loyalward Ltd already is the ltd company that looks after the CS project. Two of the main shareholders of Minoan are directors of Loyalward and both have added shares over the past few years.

Waiting on news whilst watching the share price action of the mm's is testing to say the least but thats all one can do, wait....................

At some stage we will find out whether the T&L business will complete or not. Its gone on for so long that even the doubters are doubting themselves - we haven't heard to the contrary, whatever the outcome it will necessitate an RNS and not hearing one can only assume that its still ongoing. A conclusion within the next 2 weeks and in time for Hillside who can then be paid their loan back. THEN BOTH businesse can move on to better prospects. The market doesn't seem to like the two businesses together, difficult to value and therefore having an adverse effect on the share price and market cap. The mouthwatering potential of the Cavo Sidero development will then be the only concern of the bod. But will it happen??………..

Lets hope it marks completion of the sale of the T&L business, Knigelk. I hear your note of caution regarding funding however their need for funds as working capital should be much reduced as the sale is supposed to leave Min debt free which means the Hillside loan will be repaid as well. I anticipate that any potential partner interested in the CS project will have to buy in as Candia did awhile ago, which should provide additional working capital & the balance of the deposit due to the monastery which is payable I think only when the project starts in earnest. Everything should be in place by then prospective partner-wise.

All week the pendulum swung in the doubters direction but increased buying/little selling on Friday changed that for the plus side where there was renewed interest about the sale of the T&L business together with the CS potential. IMHO the T&L sale completion will be the catalyst to a re-rating of the share price. Completion will leave Minoan debt free with enough funds to have a good run at marketing and developing the CS site in Crete. It will unlock the clear value that the development has already with the PD and unappealable planning. Phase 1 should find interested parties funding the development of the Grandes Bay village, the Golf complex and Golf conference village. Then they will move on to phase 2 , three villages, a hotel in each one at White Sands, Porto Sidero and Crystal Cove. A mouthwatering prospect with clear potential. With the share price languishing to the doubters needs at around 6p the market cap of Minoan is ONLY �14M whereas the CS development is valued at anything up to �80M plus investors are waking up to realising there's plenty of upside to Minoan's share price. �80M equates to a share price of 35-40p!! All IMHO but if true doubters will take a pasting!!

They are now looking to buy 300K in one turn which comes out at about �17.5K (just to clarify). So, despite the negative comments from our now resident doubter, it says to me that they wouldn't be interested in that many if they didn't think they could sell them on at a later date at a higher price. But I am sure I will be put firmly in my place for being remotely positive!

All to play for (still!) then Truthfactory. Hope you are right with the T&L sale. If they get �6M for it that leaves �8M of value left in the market cap for CS development. Considerable upside for the market cap as I believe bod reckon its worth at least �50M. Approx true value can be worked out on the deal with first investor but you may well be right that they pass the whole on in one go. IMHO they will be able to get far more than �8M for the whole but that is up to the bod negotiation skills which have been considerably tested over the past 20 yrs or so.

I didn't put that! 250K of shares not �250K worth, its quite a big difference!!

The doubters have it! But do they? MM's are confidently looking to buy 250K in one go so SOMETHING is up, as yesterday it was next to nothing. FWIW

Yes they have spent a lot on the CS project to date, it has taken about 20 years of effort to get through the maize of Greek planning/ appeals to finally obtain the PD and unappealable planning permission. That's all historic though as they have the main prize now so should be able to progress the project with other joint venture/partnerships. IMHO they have done the important bit and it should have crystallised the potential value of development but it just isn't being reflected in the share price which languishes at 6p or thereabouts. And that to my mind is the due to the ongoing disposal of the T&L business. I hope your thoughts are right and it does complete this week. The market reaction will be very positive IMHO.

Looking in more detail at the annual accounts they show the T&L business made an operating profit ye 31/10/17 of �563K up on the previous year �272K. If you add back the deprec �468K cash flowing in comes to about �1M. It therefore looks pretty profitable to me and making a considerable contribution to the working capital they need for the CS project. In addition the 1st quarter 2018 showed transactions up 14% and GP up 9% therefore improving level of operating profit going forward. I think they organised additional funding of �500K anticipating the sale of the T&L would leave a gap from the sale completion to funds coming in from interested parties buying a stake in the CS project, the placing was to help them through that period presumably. It does have its risks attached so hear what you are saying Arsenal17 its certainly not one for the faint-hearted and by the lack of news it would appear that their efforts or lack of them judging by zilch information in the last month are allowing doubters to increase in intensity. The completion of the sale of the T&L is IMHO pivotal as the co will be able to start again debt free with a substantial asset of the Cavo Sidero project with PD and unappealable planning permission, that's where the value in the co is IMHO. Some of us,despite the very acceptable concerns feel it is an opportunity as the market capital of �14M is only going to increase following the completion of the sale of the T&L business. Depends too on how you view the bod most of which are getting on a bit, but they have fought long and hard for the CS development so IMHO deserve the chance to finally achieve. Also there are a couple of Loyalward directors who have largeish holdings in Min and Loyalward is the ltd co concentrated on the CS project so they will be keeping a close eye on how it progresses. But still we await news................

The doubters have it for the time being and that's despite me wearing my lucky blue socks all week! Truthfactory, Arsenal17 et al clearly winning this week with slight resistance early on from DYOR70 and a defiant rearguard action from Scotty on the other board. It all hinges on the T&L sale and when (if ever) that will complete, the delay all adds to the doubters fire sending the share price lower. However, the fact that we have NOT been told that it has been called off suggests very much that it is still on, just not happening as quickly as we would have hoped. Everything should flow in a positive direction from then on. The loans will be cleared leaving the co debt free. DW might well stay on, being a keen golfer, may even get involved in the building of the golf course at the CS development? Partners with deep pockets will have already been attracted to the CS development, property values are increasing in Crete and that area at a premium to other areas in Crete. CE and the bod have fought hard over many years to reach the point of a PD and unappealable planning permission, that all adds to the value of the site. And speaking of values IMHO not reflected in the Min share price and market value of the company which stand at a miserly �14M but the question is what is the true value of the company? If the T&L business is sold and the co left debt free it will become clear once the interested parties in the CS development firm up on their offers. News of the stake taken in the project ie the % the IP wants to invest in and how much he is paying will give a clear indication of the value the project has to the co IMHO. Spending an age to complete on the T&L side just fans the doubters flames. The co doesn't seem to be able to move on to more positive avenues leading to this lul of uncertainty which the market and us pi's are not keen on at all. That said the T&L business is still making a positive contribution to their working capital whilst still owned so this lul is not all bad news. We all just have to wait on news..................

I make it pretty level with the white's slightly ahead. Arsenal17 & Truthfactory skilfully negotiating the black's. Minoan time-out will end soon IMHO with the completion of the T&L sale. Then the debts will be paid off to leave the co debt free. Followed by the detail on the interested party's acquisition of a significant stake in the CS project. Interest & momentum building white's position. Sale falls through and black's have a field day!

Well its either black or white here, nothing imbetween. Understand why too. IMHO the T&L sale will be the catalyst for a rerating of the share price but its not all important. If it is sold the debts will be paid off and they can move swifty, Minoan style on to the Cavo Sidero project. The market will like that. If not sold it is profitable with and operating profit upwards of say �750K pa, The market doesn't seem to like the two businesses together, difficult to value. They can easily split it in two with CS project in Loyalward Ltd and the T&L business Stewart travel ltd they are doing that already but amalgamate them under the Minoan group. The share price was yoyoing up and down today at the mm's will, they seem to be after shares cheap and IMHO they is alot to go on the upside. The Align Research is worth a read for those interested in the CS project. The bod might be getting on but they seem to be clear on their strategy now. Sell the T&L business, clear the debts and move the CS project up a gear. With an investor expressing an interest in acquiring a SIGNIFICANT stake in the CS project is a clear expression that there is positive movement on this. Probably alot of geriatric peddling beneath the surface. All this can only enhance the low share price IMHO. Well thats part of the "white" and its all positive with interest and momentum building. The "black" is IMHO all historic.

Leader Smart Holdings I believe is the co that was listed separately, came via uvel shareholding about 5-6 yrs ago. Little has been heard of it since. Noirua's posts on advfn over the last few years will be more helpful if still interested.