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Thanks hmch, I do understand that regarding AFC & AEM. What is not clear is the resulting quality of hydrogen, having been carried in ammonia, after the cracking/splitting process. The ammonia cracker that AFC are adopting is suitable for AEM, and as you say is likely the cheapest of production cost. Interested to compare production costs and relevant number of process requirements to reach acceptable levels of purity for AEM.v.PEM.
Siemens are planning ‘industrial scale’ production of H2 via ammonia, and it may be that they will offer a variety of systems depending of the purity of H2 required for end use. And ultimately the cracker system may be competitive to the system AFC adopt.?
As with so much about Fuel Cells and related technology, the fine details are yet to be revealed.
Thanks tm, would be interesting to know the grade of H2 purity aimed for, and whether reaching 5x9’s increases the production cost compared to achieving 3x9’s or less.
This is clearly an important detail, offering a USP to the competitors. Should it be that testing has reached the point that 3 or 4 different fuels can be used with confidence, then maybe this is a good time for either Mace or Keltbray to ‘announce’, coincidentally during COP27, on mainstream news, etc, of the construction industry making strides to replace diesel.
The new pm in his first speech at his first budget as chancellor, mentioned hydrogen fuel cells as a great British invention.
Thanks hmch,
To me, this is the next big conundrum, and an interesting topic of discussion. I am unable to argue any of the points you layed out as it is a too complicated scenario for me to comprehend. There is first the detail of lease/hire/sale of the product, and from/by who, and then further the matter that AFC are contracted to supply fuel to Keltbray, widening the scope of ‘preferential’ supplier to industry.
As many times as I have been to AGM’s, and presentation days, and asked as many questions as possible, it is not clear, to me, how the product will eventually reach the market consistently. The positive Acciona feedback, and now further trials, all suggest the product has a substantial market. Well & good.
The intricacies of product and fuel supply to clients is of course a major factor, that will likely require significant capital expenditure …something that might well sit comfortably in a clean energy gov’t policy.?
Regarding ‘sales’, even though quite so many big name construction firms are feeling the pulse of this new tech, direct sales are not necessarily the aim.!
At the AGM, Mr Bond explained that for progress to sales to Altaqqua, alot of work will be required to enable Altaqqua to present any system as available to their multiple language clients. Manuals of operation, trained staff for installation and maintenance, reliable fuel supply, etc. to enable sales for lease.
The likes of Mace, Keltbray, Kier, etc. will likely be looking to be able, and willing, to hire systems as required. So who will they hire a system from.? Will an established hire company buy 1000 units, 10,000 units, under an arrangement with the likes of Mace, Keltbray, etc. that they will hire X number/year at £X/unit.
Could that hire company be a start-up business …a subsidiary of AFC Energy.
It is very good and well that there is so much interest from worthy end users. The eventual continuous supply to the industry is still not clear, although maybe much clearer to the team at AFC.!
I do realise that different grades can be used, just not aware of any statements from AFC that various grades can be accepted by a single unit once initially fed a specific grade fuel.
A relatively minor detail in the scheme of, yet proof in practice on-site will be a valuable selling point.
Thanks hmch, are you sure that running on various grade H2 is possible.?
Should that happen and AFC are able to present the case that performance is not affected by using cheaper H2, then that is a big positive.
It was stated in the original RNS about Keltbray trialing the Power Tower that AFC will be responsible to supply the fuel. In the ‘linked’ post, thanks FLC, it mentions “data collection” so maybe a variety of fuels will be supplied.? Not sure that is practically possible to use different grades of H2 to the one unit at different times.
A fair bit more detail about the Acciona operation would be welcome. Will assume the Keltbray site trial will be similar in terms of power requirements/planning, although Keltbray will differ ‘significantly’ in that AFC are contracted to supply the fuel.
And with the volatility in the cost of various fuels nowadays, it would be very interesting to have comparisons of XkWh used by diesel, grid electric, and whatever Acciona used, whatever Keltbray will be supplied. Especially detail regarding either ammonia or graded H2.
The ExE series could use an update aswell. The ‘rebranding’ situation, Altaqqua position, and again fuel supply.
Is it that Mace are or will also trial.?
A full, overall update would be welcome, to continue this positive newsflow.
A very positive and up-beat announcement, and constructed at the new facility at Dunsfold. Should be very interesting the SP reaction in current market conditions.
Kier, Keltbray, and now Mace confirmed. There could hardly be three bigger names in the construction industry with which to ‘launch’ the product to market in Britain. With Acciona to follow in Europe, and Altaaqa in MENA, this is certainly getting the news out there.
You could be right chippy.
There are two aspects of the fuel supply: the customer is not familiar with the FuelCell process; AFC know what works most efficiently with the systems.
Should AFC decide that a fuel brokerage will progress deals more easily, then they might have to consider the offering. A specialist sub-division to the main business, with a small/reasonable/attractive mark-up to make it worthwhile. Or maybe relevant grade H2 or ammonia is straight-forward supplied already.
Very good news.!
Also, could it be that AFC are looking to create a sub-division as ‘fuel broker’ …”supplying Kier with hydrogen on commercial terms.”
Mace, Keltbray, Acciona, Kier. Just supplying these four with FuelCells would be VERY good business.!
Not sure that this important point was made as follow-up to the AGM. Mr Bond described how Keltbray and Mace, and maybe others, are not looking to own the FuelCells. A few of the big rental companies were named, Agreko etc, as being the expected route that Keltbray etc will use FuelCells.
Thanks latour, yes I do.! Last September since on the beach.! Just warming up enough now.
Maybe it will come down to simple options: the POWER TOWER is fuelled by 3x9 H2; the 20ft HFC is bespoke ordered to either 3x9 H2, meth or amm, all of which will be self contained.
Might trying to offer the 3 options to the POWER TOWER be a step too far.?
Thanks S’hay, that is exactly the point that I was grappling with. On viewing the towers yesterday they are sleek and compact, and the need to contain a further element would defeat the object.
There was an illustration of a pallet of H2 cylinders, about 15, that clearly showed how 3x9 H2 would be delivered as fuel. I can only assume that basic valves and hoses would connect the fuel to the towers. And so maybe similarly, a pallet tank with the necessary cracker/reformer built-in and then valves and hose.
All to the goal of running on the cheapest fuel to achieve the same power density.
Thanks Jim, yes that makes good sense. I remember the microwave reference. So maybe that box is virtually part of the fuel supply storage tank.?
So the towers and the 20 represent scaleable, mobile, clean energy.
There is the shipping market which is huge. Apparently, the shipping industry has said a big-fat NO to hydrogen as a direct fuel, categorically insisting on methanol or ammonia. The requirements are in the region of Megawatts of power. That is the 40ft container being designed and tested to the specific requirements of the shipping target market.
My guess is that Ricardo are doing their own thing around the auto and rail possibilities.