Member Info for adzy2k11

Does this sound familiar?

“Earlier this year, U.S. short seller Muddy Waters said it was betting against Luckin’s shares and circulated an anonymous report that alleged the company was inflating sales. Luckin said on Feb. 3 that the report was malicious and rejected its claims, calling them false, misleading and irrelevant.

Shortly after, CICC came out in defense of Luckin in a research report, saying it believed the anonymous allegations were mainly based on grass-root surveys as well as subjective speculation. CICC also said it expected Luckin to turn profitable in 2021.”

And these mugs are silent as usual...
“A spokeswoman for Credit Suisse declined to comment. Representatives for Morgan Stanley and CICC didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment. Luckin’s auditors, Ernst & Young, also didn’t immediately reply to a request for comment”

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/luckin-coffee-accuses-operating-chief-of-financial-misconduct-11585840274

Worth a read. So much fraud everywhere.

https://twitter.com/muddywatersre/status/1223274746017722371?s=20

These guys are good.

Given the scale of the fraud they will need to wait for all the revelations to come out and all of the advisors to finish their reports before the game is “officially” up...

“I would have thought administration and wipeout would have happened by now.”

Deos: these things usually take 6 months or so.

“The thing that I despise with this Rastuss bloke is how there is an underlying negative tone in every post“

His last post has a “strong buy” opinion next to it. Ha!
He might be short? He’s entitled to post what he wants...

1% doesn’t sound like much... Could ADCB wipe it off and carry on? Maybe. Will they? Unlikely.

“I am at a loss to understand how Shetty and his associates managed to do this without someone stopping it/whistle blowing sooner”

It really is quite unbelievable... 85 banks and it still
Didn’t come out even thru MW? Well not directly anyway. ...and for shetty to now come out and say he will tell the “real” story is shocking audacity... I do wonder what the real motive was? How can Shetty turn into a crook at 78 and destroy what it took decades to build? He doesn’t seem particularly financially savvy so it must have been many others too... And where did all this money really go, there’s no announcements of major transactions anywhere... mind boggling.

“Every bank I’ve ever had a corporate relationship with have been sticklers for correct documentation“

I think you’ve been dealing with the wrong banks! Ha. There’s plenty who will slide over correct procedures to generate fee income. Maybe not hsbc, jpm etc but we can’t be so sure about the 80 others.

Obviously they are going to insist on 100%, just put up the margin, what’s the big deal? It’s near enough a sure win when/if it does come out of suspension.

What’s you daily interest?

Hey Rastuss, I'm not sure that is correct, would need someone with better legal background to advise, but from a little research it seems that there are several legal arguments on which a suspension, or even a cancellation, of repayment of bank loans can be based. In order to establish the invalidity of a loan agreement it is necessary to take into account not only the dispositions of the agreement but also the circumstances in which it was signed and the actual use of the borrowed money. It will obviously be necessary to audit the debt to shed light on those various elements. Companies that wish to reduce their debts can use arguments from commercial law, among which are those appearing below, in order to find legal grounds for cancellation/repudiation of part of their bank debt:

Defects of consent, for example:
1) absence of competence in a contracting party
2) direct or indirect corruption of a contracting party during negotiations
3) coercion through acts or threats of a contracting party
4) fraud
5) Illicit or immoral cause of the contract and/or Illicit use of lent money

“If the loans were drawn as the result of acts of bad faith by people at NMC”

That’s a fair assumption, but bankers are hardly known to be morally clean themselves, are they? What if the loans were provided as a result of bad faith/bribery at the banks themselves?

“It’s surely extremely unlikely that the banks will take a major haircut while the shares retain some value”

Yes, about the same probability (on 1st Jan 2020) that a global virus would shut down the entire world economy

Sorry, typo - i meant - the former occurring by no means = the latter being true.

Hi there, I think you have to separate the banks taking a big haircut on their dodgy loans and shareholders getting anything back. The latter by no means = the former.

Just read up on it. Wow. Fascinating.

This line will probably apply to NMC soon enough: “ On 5 July 1991, regulators persuaded a court in Luxembourg to order BCCI liquidated on the grounds that it was hopelessly insolvent”

rastuss: i do think you might be right about the share pledge. It might well have been used as collateral for the loans, even though banks wouldn’t normally accept this I’m guessing they were convinced to do so given the “darling” status of nmc at the time.

The pledges were first announced at the beginning of 2018, when price was ~£35 or $7.3bn... at 60% shareholding of Shetty and Buttis back then, that equates to... yes... $4.4bn...

Do you have a link to it?

Rastuss: I’m not as convinced as you regarding enforceability of the loans. You don’t need the top people at the bank to be explicitly complicit in the fraud. The way these things work is that the culture of the banks in a strained/regulated environment is to try make extra fees/income however possible. They will cut corners and turn a blind eye to normal procedures if it means more fees from unsecured and higher rate loans. Again, please do some research on how DB lent to Donald Trump despite numerous previous defaults. It didn’t require the top bank officials to be involved on signing off on ridiculous loans that eventually defaulted. DB didn’t get anything back and Trump and his companies still did ok. Listen to the below if you have time.

https://www.realvision.com/shows/the-interview/videos/deutsche-bank-on-the-brink-of-disaster#.XnGEWCIffh0.twitter

If the lenders didn’t exercise proper due diligence and lent over $4.4bn in unsecured loans (on top of the official debt $2.1bn debt) for non group purposes, then that really is the banks’ own problem(s). If the loaned money was specifically spent on nmc then I can understand their claim to recover these loans. But Nobody has announced any such transactions which suggests it was mostly all siphoned off since June 2019... The fact that the banks have been so silent through all of this suggests to be they are probably a guilty associated party with these unauthorised loans and as such may not be expecting much back (otherwise you’d expect much more shouting from the roof tops)!

Still no word on wages, but if they weren't paid we would have heard about it. Cosmosurge seems active still so looks like the company is still operating per normal.