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Funny they just dissappear so quickly. Bury their heads in the sand and never admit they got it wrong.
Its Easy to post nasty comments about other posters opinions but the reality is rather than lash out at the company based on performance and history they block views and posts and cannot handle anyone who dosent agree with their them and personally slate them. Just the snow
Very sad. I hold over 40000 of these in my SIp and CFDs and I am concerned more each week as the company goes from bad to worse yet competition move ahead. The company does not want to change its direction even though the market appears to have no confidence and the debt grows and the SP dives. The dividend is ok based on todays value but based on those holding shares for years its not.
Just hope for a change as a company that has 1blue and 4 red consistently won't last forever regardless of the rampers best hopes. Something will need to give for it to merge, change direction or keep borrowing to pay for licences that can't return the investment and eventually become a casualty when interest rates rise. Annoyed that those running this keep heading tormented the train lights.
They are probable just getting on with there life instead of coming on here constantly whinging. Anybody who bought vod at way above todays price got it wrong, but don't need to come on here moaning about it all the time,unless they are very sad! We all know we got it wrong, so move on?! You can always sell if you want? Your choice?
Simply saying that anyone who bought above todays levels got it wrong is simply calling out those who purchased high and held as the ramper fortune tellers all claimed should be done as an investment or averaging down each day I suspect the reason why they are no longer out in force is because they couldn't stand behind their posts and sold out,lickng their wounds along the way. Of course one could sell but who wants to make a loss. Apparently anyone buying vodafone are in loss as soon as they click buy and it just goes south further. Ramp, whinge makes no difference but am glad there is a balanced view
Pfen; For that change to happen, The Board must go!
They have been proven to be incompetent for years - Dividends will not save the day, capital loss is much bigger than dividends.
Every news is bad news for VOD, Looking back I do not remember a good one for months. In the meantiem, Boards memebers will carry on with their bonuses
PFen. With all due respect, you come across as the classic example of someone who should not be investing on the stock market, & definitely not c.f.d.'s. I have done c.f.d.'s (never again) but got out before I lost too much, very dangerous!. You sound like a rabbit just freezing with it's eyes caught in a cars headlights! Perhaps those who sold out, licking there wounds as you said, did the right thing? If of course though, you are positive about vod's future (not the past) then hold.
To all of you who keep going on about debt rising and negative equity, you need to read the half year and full reports a bit more carefully and compare like for like.
Net debt was up marginally by circa 400m in the last half year report compared to same time period the year before, and the year before net debt had actually reduced by 4bn and in the FY report earlier this year net debt had again been reduced compared to the same time period.
Stop reading just the headline figure about net debt increasing over the 6 month period as VOD cashflow is seasonal so you're comparing apples and pears.
If you look at the shareholder funds you'll also see that each share has around £1.80 in net assets.
The dividend cover is pretty pants, but you also need to remember that current operating profits are good and increasing, but the reported profit is significantly reduced by large amounts of depreciation and amortisation relating to past acquisitions and the dividend is more than covered by free cashflow from operating profits.
VOD was certainly a rubbish investment a few years ago at £2+ but at the moment it is undervalued and the SP seems to have found a bottom. We've just had an ex dividend day followed the next day by the markets losing their marbles over Omicron, and the SP went down pretty much in line with the markets, whereas a few months ago it would have tanked.
Revenue and profits are increasing, albeit at snails pace, the SP appears to have bottomed out and the dividend is pretty safe and offers a good yield.
At this point in time it looks like a good investment to me, and hopefully once we find out the Omicron variant isn't going to send us all back into protracted lock downs and markets recover, I fully expect this to be heading back to test the top of the trading range at around 142p, and with some more M&A activity in the sector and at least one more set of good results, it could break out of that range and go higher.
Worst case I can see is briefly touching 90p if the world goes mad, but the div will still be paid and it won't stay there for long.
You are correct compound this will go to 90p sure as eggs are eggs, it is so unloved by the people who matter in this world of stick picking. Anytime soon this inept BOD will announce that they are having to stump up billions in licensing fees, adding to the debt mountain, the market & the shorters will just love that.
The market is sure that VOD will have to reduce the dividend soon in order to address the woeful dividend cover, this is something that the BOD's should have been addressing yonks ago. For those that look & post the same drivel here every hour of every day just save your time, this isn't going higher anytime soon.
Gary59. What are you on? Make your mind up. You make no sense at all? Why don't you save your time & stop posting contradictory(drivel ,your words)? What is stick picking? By the way, compound did not say this will go to 90p,he said that is the worst case, so learn to read posts properly & stop talking drivel?
Glad you asked that question Dan, Also confused about Gary's posts, at one point he callss this a growth stock?, and says it will do well, in another post he says it will go down to 90p, come back and explain please Gary
Also have a question for pfen, you say there is no hope of improvement here, so what's your plan then, maybe you can explain what your going to do about it
Cheers robleo. I think perhaps many have just given up with this crazy forum, It could be just me & you, & dare I say it, Mikey left? At least Mikey is consistent? Otherwise some of the posts on here make no sense at all? Happy Monday? By the way, PFen does not answer questions??? As for Gary?? Who knows??
No I definitely didn't say I think it will get down to 90p. The only time I can see VOD getting to 90p is if the world goes mad - i.e. we end up in protracted lockdowns because of Omicron and the FTSE drops down to around 5,000.
I don't think will happen as Omicron doesn't seem to cause serious illness, although it's early days and you can't ignore the possibility that things could get worse.
VOD is definitely not a growth stock, it's a value stock. Growth stocks are sensitive to interest rate fluctuations not because they borrow lots of money - quite the opposite as many of them don't have any net debt as they are cash rich. Their valuations however, are based on projected future cashflows. In a low interest environment those future cashflows are worth more, so valuations are high, but when interest rates go up it's worth less so valuations and SP's crash.
Yes VOD does have a lot of debt, but through a combination of long term fixed interest debt and hedging rates on shorter term debt, their interest payments are relatively stable and are nowhere near as sensitive to interest rate fluctuations as you might think.
Value stocks such as VOD can actually do comparatively well in a high inflation/high interest rate environment, providing that inflation is higher than interest rates, and they can increase prices in line with inflation, as that can lead to increased profits. Dividend yields in a high interest environment need to increase to maintain the premium above the risk free rate (ie interest rates), so if profits don't increase enough to increase the dividend, then the SP would need to drop to increase the yield. That calculation though is far less sensitive to interest rate increases than the discounted future cashflow models used to value growth stocks, so you often see people dumping growth stocks to buy value stocks which can offset some of the downward pressure on valuations.
This is exactly what is happening on the US markets at the moment, with the NASDAQ (all growth) getting smashed, S&P 500 (lots of growth and some value) down half as much and the predominantly value focused DOW (and VOD ADR) down half as much again.
Going back to VOD, if you look at the charts and see through the noise of the last week, you can see that VOD has been in a downtrend from May to Nov, during which time the FTSE has moved sideways/upwards. That changed in November and VOD has been trending upwards, despite having an ex div day, when the FTSE has been moving down.
Sentiment is changing. As soon as this Omicron nonsense blows over this will go up.
Well everything has taken a bit of a bashing with me the last week, so don't think it would be very fair to single out Vodafone, and can't see there being much improvement until sometime into the new year
after reading the posts from Compound and Pfen, I agree with both of them ??
I suspect Compound has bought in here around the bottom end, and sees it as an opportunity to make a few bob, should it rise to say 140-150, and possible Pfen has bought in at the high end, and can't see much chance of recovering his losses, I maybe wrong though
Everyone has to make their own decisions, I admit this has not been a good investment for me, and don't see much chance of recovering all of my money here, but think its worth holding out for a better price, just my opinion of course, will see where we are next spring
best of luck
Yeah I've built a position in the last few months so will make a few bob when it goes to 140p, which I think will be in the next 2-6 months. Plan at the moment is to sell around half then and keep the rest until around the 160-180p mark, although I think that could take another couple of years and I will reassess that second target and timescales next year.
I can fully understand people being very annoyed at past performance and wanting to vent. It's been a dog of an investment in the last few years at a time when equity markets have been surging.
Diversified equity portfolios have been delivering 10%-20%pa returns, and anyone who bought in at higher prices hasn't got a hope in hell of making up for those lost returns.
We are where we are though, and irrespective of your average price, the decision to add, reduce, hold or sell should be based upon the current situation and where you think the company and SP can go from here.
If nothing else, VOD is a proxy bond when interest rates rise. SP is nearer the bottom than the top and pays 7% div?
And, according to the 'ramping' VOD CEO at H1 'Our results are in line with our expectations for the year and the medium term financial ambition. Service revenue grew 2.8% in the first half. We had EBITDAaL growth of 6.5%. I think importantly return on capital, which is very important to us, moved up 80 basis points to 6.3%. That combination gave us confidence to move up guidance to the upper half of the range for EBITDAaL between €15.2 billion and €15.4 billion and move up our adjusted free cash flow expectation to at least €5.3 billion'.
Having said that, interest rates might not rise whilst omicron is raging. I suppose oil may be doing some of the job controlling inflation for year end CPI etc.
A good Q3 performance should confirm current course and speed and economic immunity to covid ;-)
GLA
My apologies for the seemingly contradictory posts, I take my medication mid afternoon & it affects my mood greatly.
If this does get to 90p though I'll be reminding you guys who said it, hope it doesn't by the way I hold 15,195 of these.
Seasons greetings one & all, now where did I put my pills?
I've read through this thread and did a recommend on Compound's contribution since he made perfect sense, but the past doesn't fortel the future and I see Vodafone as more of a takeover target than BT, even though the current speculation is swirling around BT. I've read that Private Equity are currently sitting on around $1.5 Trillion in cash, and are hungry to make acquisitions; Vodafone would be a historic buy, by any standard, but multiple P.E. firms could partner in any buyout and spread the costs. Vodafone's Net Debt is currently sitting around €44.3 billion (£37.88 Billion) , and the market cap is around £30.5 Billion, so the current enterprise value is likely over £70 Billion, yahoo puts it at £77.39 Billion.
For Private Equity to be interested, they would have to look at Vodafone's various businesses, partnership holdings in joint ventures, and other factors like MPESA. Vodafone is already structured as seperate businesses, within Group, so any takeover attempt would have to weigh up selling all the separate entities with a view to to paying down the debt and seeing what's left, and determining the correct bid premium above the current price, still allowing a good profit.
Since Vodafone are number 2, or 3, in the markets they operate within, there would be less local regulatory blowback than purchasing an incumbent like BT in the UK.
Vodafone are massive, with fingers in lots of pie's, and P.E. may well run the slide rule over the company to determine a breakup valuation; If P.E. saw an easy profit, who's to say they wouldn't team up to make a historic M&A bid for Vodafone? Improbable, but not impossible.
fleccy. I am glad you made the point that vod's value is over £70billion which is the market cap' plus deb't. I point I tried to explain in a post I made on 19/nov. which was later ridiculed by narcus. It is a very important point to make I think, as otherwise vod would appear to be worth less than it's deb't, so less than worthless, bankrupt?!
It must be rampers day today ??(only joking), price is so low at the moment, think it would be foolish not to hold on for a better price, unless some of you guys think there's no hope, nothing is guaranteed of course,also beware of Gary's 90p curse it might happen-;))
Why would anyone buy VOD. You'd have to employ Mikey.
OOOOOONLYYYY jooookkkking
You've gone and killed our rampers day, now mole lol