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I would imagine that they are going to be a little more selective with whom they trade going forward. They have learnt their lesson and can subsequently move on.
At the current price of 7p which only value the company at about £5m at that price a bid could well come in for them. Although 20p would be nice jump from 7p, like you say that would most likely still be undervaluing the company, and the share price would most likely get to that price in a very short time on it's own once results are out. Just wondering what's value people are putting on this company. If you where to disregard passed deals and problems that might arise from them and instead looking forward on new deals. Given that they are doing about £50 to 65m worth of deal's each year, and hopefully still paying dividends. Would 50p to £1 be nearer the mark. Or back over £2. Just wondering what you thought on this are. Nice to see the share price going the right way.
AT trades are active today
That would be a lovely late present.
what's the betting someone will knock on the door in the new year and offer us 20p thinking they are doing us all a big favour...when really they are just taking advantage of a below market price of 6p as 20p is still way undervalued anyway.
Nice to see a change in sentiment. Long may it continie
If it turns around, just like GMS, then the gains will be significant
Little movement.
Maybe this BOD have a chance to redeem .
Best of All
Year high was 53p
Been alot of bad rumors driving the price to an all time low
Good news would be nice
Best of All
Another one coming off a very oversold position
Looks like we could see a rise from here
well that's it, i have plumped for another £20k but if this goes south, then as i'm expecting the deals secured to outweigh the debt owed, (even though that is agreed to be paid back over time), i might just consider buying them all out and sacking the lot of them and just bank the sales income from live contracts, ..so from 6p i fully expect upside or else.
Dictionary
/'d?k?(?)n(?)ri/Submit
noun
a book or electronic resource that lists the words of a language (typically in alphabetical order) and gives their meaning, or gives the equivalent words in a different language, often also providing information about pronunciation, origin, and usage.
"I'll look up 'love' in the dictionary"
synonyms: lexicon, wordbook, glossary, vocabulary list, vocabulary, word list, wordfinder
"half of the words in his text were not in the dictionary"
Grammar
/'gram?/Submit
noun
1.
the whole system and structure of a language or of languages in general, usually taken as consisting of syntax and morphology (including inflections) and sometimes also phonology and semantics.
synonyms: syntax, rules of language, morphology, semantics;
Well watch this space mo fu
I wouldn't have over 10k in without any information
Lets put a date stamp in......you heard it 19/12/2018
Feel free to call it drivel back to me again once the share price as more than doubled -
(looking forward to copying paste this to re-post once it as)
Good day to you all......worth that punt imho from whats been talked about at the work place hub itself.
Plus a deal coming soon ??? Lets await the announcement
Anyone on here not got a "friend" who works at Utilitywise!
These friends always simultaneously are not particularly senior in role e.g. sales team, yet somehow have knowledge of a Senior Director.
Also fellas this is an investor forum, not MSN Messenger. Without intending to be 'rude' it might be worth a few of you writing to Santa and asking for a dictionary and thesaurus. At the very least turn your spell check on.
This will not solve the entire issue as I literally am unable to follow certain posts as they are incoherent drivel.
At the currant market value it easy to see why it open to be brought out. the order books gives it more value than it's market value. So if a offer was to come in it be a lot higher than 5p. My friend has no worries, he in the middle of buying a £200k plus house. The new team are buying themselves time to sort this out. Making sure there no more skeletons to catch them out.
Was contemplating buying more stock , already have just over 10 k worth , nothing concrete at all but the person connected to the place that I'm in contact with she says alot of gossip doing the rounds , especially about being bought out , and that the situation isn't as bad as I sound it to her so even tho only gossip , it's getting me thinking. In invested for the turn around story but things here might and I returate might get interesting very soon. Contemplating sticking another 5 k in good luck all
Maybe UTW should be pursuing him for the bonuses he received. If he knew this was likely to happen, then the bonuses HE AND THE BOARD AWARDED them self where wrong. The regulators and police could be looking into this. To set up another company to pursued deals your company has done, mean you know the deals where wrong. Is that not intent.
Seems crazy that Thompson can get away with this - surely he was there with all the inaccurate reporting and made a fortune by selling down his shares - much more than the company is worth today. The regulators / police need to be looking into this in a big way. He needs to pay back this money, then the company will be fine.
HI FLUMMOXED2000, Thank you for your post. Like you say this has been a ticking time bomb, but the new team are trying to deal with this despite Thompson effort to de-rail them. Setting up a company to sue his former company past deals, which he had a big hand in how it was run seem wrong. Which given the complex issue of dealing with all past contracts and legal issue would be a massive task. But it looks like the new teams are dealing with this, cutting cost and dealing with the suppliers and banks. Trying to avoid any costly lawsuit in the future. It's in no one interest to see the company go bust, so I believe they are all working though this together to make sure UTW survive. The big issue is cash flow and how much of a hit on profit going forward in the short to medium term. As long as the banks and suppliers give them space and time to work though this the company will be fine, and 5p will seem like a bargain.
I'm pretty sure 99% of people posting/reading are aware of the issues you've stated.
Your 'enlightening insight' has been shared 967,436 (approx) times on this and other forums, but thanks.
As I and others have stated, the issue going forward is cash flow as they are not receiving upfront payments.
I think we are all past caring what 'geoff' did or didn't know. Plausible deniability and the lack of ability to prove what you 'think' you know mean it is pointless discussing.
As for Northern Gas and Power, Utility Alliance and great annual savings etc.
A) Have a look at Northern Gas and powers accounts on companies house. They have more cash in bank the Utilitywise did at any point.
B) The owners of the above companies have learnt from Utilitywise's mistakes - as have the suppliers. There are far more internal processes put in place to reduce the upfront payment issues. A far higher % of contracts are on a consumption basis rather than upfront.
C) The spread of suppliers is far greater so if there is a claw back from one supplier it will not be so large. Of course while any issues arise they can continue to use alternatives while any potential repayment is negotiated.
D) Unlike Utilitywise the above companies have implemented clawbacks into employee contracts. These covenants also supersede the employees duration of employment, so the employee does not relinquish obligation upon leaving the company.
Again thanks a lot for taking us all back to 2015 when we found out the issues you outlined.
There are plenty of people still not grasping the fundamental issue that has put UTW into this position, and may well put it out of business.
Thompson and crew opted for (and drove energy suppliers towards) an aggressive policy of taking most of the commission value of a contract upfront as cash. They then had terms with those energy suppliers that meant that a 'true-up' wouldn't happen until the end of that contract. They then drove 4-5 year contracts as a way to maximise cash inflows, and kicked the can down the road for the true-up. That was OK for a period of time, as new business well outweighed any negative true -ups, but eventually it has caught up with them - or more appropriately with the new team.Talking to some in the industry this past few weeks it was well known that this was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode - which it duly has - and that is why many in the industry are very happy to see this happen.
The energy suppliers have themselves to blame, but are contractually able to reclaim overpaid commissions which is exactly what happened in 2017 to the tune of £7m+ for contracts written in prior years with just one supplier. I can't see how the current management team could have avoided this. In fact they have done what they are obliged to do and announce all of this and have spent time trying to put in controls to prevent this happening in the future which has impacted sales, and I guess profitability as the previous model was based on hundreds and hundreds of expensive people outbound calling. The previous management team were either complicit in this, or utterly inept IMHO. It is my bet that there are all sorts of true-up nightmares happening every month for past contracts, and THAT is why we are seeing them struggle.
I cant believe some of the people here are heralding Norther Gas and Power and Utility Alliance. They have the same model, and lots of the same people (used to work at UTW). What makes anyone think the same wont happen to them a couple of years down the track? One difference is that they are not public. Additionally, the expansion into new countries is IMO quite clever - New markets to exploit in the same way and generate cash required to deal with reclaims when they come.
Thompson IMO knew exactly what was going on (or if he didn't he was inept), and when the new team came in and understood they ejected him. His massive ego wouldn't let him sit back and enjoy the spoils however, so he set up a company to try and exploit misdeeds in the industry (which tells me he knew what was going on), AND ditched his shares in UTW to cause max damage (as someone else has said), to get back at the management team who kicked him out.
Came across this interesting article in my research
https://luxe-magazine.co.uk/2018/11/luxe-life-geoff-thompson/
The man himself. Read the last line. What a guy. What a joke
That is a big change