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I see that Paul Scott has taken time out to comment on Tungsten being a 'dead loss' and an 'unviable business' on his blog. Personally I'm a little sceptical of his views on this share - his previous comments are seemingly aligned to Sharemuppets and their 'going to zero' agenda. He never misses the opportunity to deride the company even when the news is not much news. Yes, from an accounting point of view, Tungsten is not currently making a profit and is not forecast to reach monthly EBITDA-positive until next year. However, that doesn't automatically make the company a 'dead loss' or 'unviable'. Previous poor performance is priced in IMO. Rick Hurwitz has so far impressed me - significant price rises, renegotiation of terms with Insight so that we make money on all financing, new product launches now operational (analytics & FX), impressive new hires (Prabhat, NEDs), focus on reducing costs and reaching profitability etc. Bluster and talk of billions & trillions has been replaced with attention to detail and a clearer (honest?) picture about what will be delivered and when. Recent director share purchases provide some reassurance about the confidence of those on the inside - especially from the FD who has kept his powder dry for a long time. It would be nice to hear directly from Prabhat himself at some point, and maybe a cheeky share purchase from him too :) The last couple of years in this share has been VERY bruising but the potential is still there and the next 12 months should give a clearer indication of where this is going. GLA.
The bank diligence is just slow and steady, it doesn't happen overnight especially if there are existing customers and legal obligations to follow. It seems the ownership documents have been transferred, but the final terms not completed, whether that's lawyers or regulators, it's difficult to say.
Awesome, so our Tungsten Early Payment revenue will go from £14k, to £28k per year, while our banking partner takes nearly a million quid. I really hope we have better terms now than the historic EP terms.
Filshare I am not challenging you. Tung have declined to give a new date for completion of the sale that may be prudent but in my view it can't be imminent. It's not a question of investing the money wisely - the company need the cash to make up for on going losses. RNS 16th September: "We are confident in our ability to achieve the performance objectives we have set for ourselves for the current financial year, principally revenue of at least £30 million, an EBITDA loss of between £12 million and £14 million, and cash in excess of £20 million at 30 April 2017. We continue to expect Early Payment financing levels to double, with material increases in this revenue from FY18." So delays in the bank sale could impact on the above forecasts. Shorters believe that TUNG will fail to get to profit even with the bank sale money. I am not in the shorts camp and I was hoping that with real money in the kitty from the bank sale there would be a boost to the share price and I could take that opportunity to off load some shares. That looked like a real possibility a few weeks ago when the share price was heading towards 65p. I am not happy to see the share price drifting lower however, this appears to be on very low trading volumes and I suspect like me many investors are waiting to see what happens to the share price when (and on if) the company gets the cash.
Ok, thanks. Update today suggests the sale is advanced and still on track, but is there any reason for the sale to actually boost the share price if it does complete - doesnt seem likely that it will just make the shorters up sticks and go away. Key thing will be that we use the proceeds wisely...I assume they will be reinvested rarher than paid out to shareholders...
From RNS 25 July "Sale of Tungsten Bank expected to close by 31 October 2016 to release cash of approximately £30 million" Therefore we have a good idea of the price - market likely to be nervous/ worried over missed deadline as that creates uncertainty and playing into the hands of shorters.
What is the hurry on the bank sale?, key presumably is to get a great price, and sales always take longer than expected. I would rather we do the 'right' deal than hurry it through to meet an artificial deadline. Is there a market consenus for what the sale will bring in so, if the deal does go through, we know whether we got a good price?
ok. Even straw becomes heavy, if you carry it far enough; but then again, Better straw, than nothing! ps there are at least 94 proverbs about straw! http://www.special-dictionary.com/proverbs/keywords/straw/
thom looks like you may be correct but 5 hours left and I'm clutching at straws !!!
MrEMC2 Unfortunately I do not think they will announce the bank sale today
One more trading day in October. Gap up Monday morning anyone?
on K3's opinion of DW: Completely agree. Would add that he presents himself as someone who plays a long game. He is thinking about TUNG in 5-10 years. Short term SP movements do not overly concern him. (however if a few weeks after I was in at 60, I could buy at 55, I would be sad)
thom, I'm the absolute last person you should ask about selling. Buying, I can do, but not selling. When we get to 90-95p, I may sell half, depending on what else catches my eye, but I may not. I'm sure David Williams would forgive me for saying that I think he is more of the conservative accountant, than the cavalier gambler. That's just my impression of him after a few conversations at CMD and AGMs. I'm not saying that he wouldn't take a few risks, but he waited a long time before making a big buy. If he is buying in quantity at >60p, then there is plenty more to come here. Maybe a slow ramp up until they choose to go ebitda positive, but then a step-change, post FY2017 results in April. Just my view. ATB
K3VMC I was thinking to sell some shares at 70+ with the sale of the bank. unfortunately this is not happening. What is your view? Do you think we could reach a new year high 77+ with the potential bank sale announcement?
Take it you missed the sharemuppets article.
the bank sale should be announced son and the share price is down ...
David Williams CFO bought 100,000 on Oct 14th which happens to be the same day the bank name change occurred. £30million to be added to our balance sheet in a matter of days.
http://www.libertyhousegroup.com/company/management/sanjeev-gupta/ In a bid to further support industry, in late 2015 he also acquired London-based Tungsten Bank and is relaunching it under the name of Wyelands Bank as a specialist provider of financial solutions to commodities, steel and engineering enterprises.
It would seem to me that the market will not rerate our SP to the positive unless or until we have something substantial to back it up with , by which I mean a strong revenue stream and or breakeven . Reputations take years to build and seconds to destroy and with the shenanigans of the last 24 months it would appear the road to redemption is a long one ! Some 'old timers' ( perhaps 'lifers' would be more apt?) know me from what seems centuries ago now - I bought into this company around 2 years + ago and genuinely thought I was getting in on the ground floor, little did I know they hadn't built the elevator shaft ! It's been quite a ride down but things at least seem on a more secure footing now . I continue to believe the potential here is enormous but I also believe it will be a few years ( 3 - 5 ) before we really start to see things motor. I am prepared to be amazed however ! Pass a rope down someone ...... ;-)
Top man bs !! Can only hope this reflects well in the sp because heaven knows we have received an almighty beating in the past when the news hasn't been so great. So, now we have this albatross from our necks, let us have some realism - this company is valued around £80m market cap, there are small chains of convenience stores valued at much the same ! Granted it's down to the BOD to start making decent revenues from this proposition but 'More transactions than PayPal' surely deserves a lot more respect in the market ??
this is the official register https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=001b000000Mf9utAAB So it wouldn't be updated until some sort of interim or final approval
Wyelands is the official company buying Tungsten bank as per companies house document. FCA site is updated now. So hopefully official announcement is on the way.
BS76 Apologies for this but how it is possible the Tungsten bank trades as Wyelands from 14/10/2016 without any official announcements?
First from filing history of Tungsten bank in companies house https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/01536428/filing-history open full accounts - page 4 => mentions tungsten bank sold to SKG Financial services Limited page 8 => Read under "Sale of Bank" Second check https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09913535 SKG Financial services Limited changed to WYELANDS HOLDINGS LIMITED And finally FCA site Updated- check in "Trading/brand names" section Tungsten bank will be trading as Wyelands from 14/10/2016 hxxps://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=001b000000Mf9utAAB So almost there !!!!!!
.. or perhaps both, if we're unlucky, eh?