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Afternoon Chris.
Available tax losses of about £5 million.
Worth about £1 million in tax savings alone.
Afternoon steve, I thought they actually had more than that, thanks for the info.
Surely Helium-1 next week, maybe Monday?
GL
Please refer me to the section in the AR, and I am happy to take it all back.
I thought they had tens of millions.
Many years ago all losses could be carried back as far as they would clear earlier profits and get any tax paid repaid.
The rules were changed as companies were buying up shell companies just to utilise losses for themselves.
Now only a one year carry back although changed to three years temporarily.
Figure scirocco are using should in effect be the last three years losses.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Hope this explains things a bit.
Thanks Steve, I thought they had 8 years? I will have to do some refreshing, not looked for sometime.
As an investment company they do not have Much in the way of UK tax loss benefits. As Steve says losses can only be carried back a year or 2.
There are specific North Sea allowances which obviously do not apply.
The only thing they could have is Tanz tax losses but I can’t see anything reporting such losses in the AR.
Please advise Chris if you can.
There is a huge difference between £10s of millions and zero millions.
Also remember that we must make a profit in order to utilise the losses. I don’t see any chance of that in the next few years. Tanz it will be 5 years from now at best.
Colin, I have to defer to steve, I thought it was 8 years but steve tends to be more right than wrong when it comes to accounts so I go with his £5 million then until proven otherwise.
Chris - still waiting for that figure in black and white.
The accounts show zero so I will stick with that.
We’ve already got you down from tens of millions to £5 million. I expect we will see you come right down if you are man enough to admit you got this wrong.
Steve - have you got some reference for the £5 million?
Good Evening to you.
Go to the accounts on the companies house website.
Bottom of page 59 all there clear to see.
Just over £5 million losses available to be used against future profits.
ATB
Steve
Thank you Steve - yes I had seen that in the AR, but they specifically say they have not made an allowance for that as they don’t have any expectation of being able to use the losses.
I am not an expert but presumably a sale of Ruvuma would be a capital gain and therefore trading losses for corporation tax would be useless?
Do you foresee any scenario with current assets where they could utilise these losses?
Correct there.
So only available against trading profits.
Whenever they come.
Have a good weekend.
That's what Chris was refe
That's what Chris was referring to ( trading profits)
Not capital gain .
Yes but we don’t “trade” and certainly don’t make a profit from it. So the losses are worthless, particularly if they can only be used for a few years.
The company itself has chosen not to attribute any value to the losses.
The losses can of course be carried forward and added to so they will be used eventually once a trading profit is made.
So the long and short of it.
Losses carried back three years probably reverting back to one year soon.
Losses carried forward indefinitely and can be added to each year so eventually when they make a large trading profit no tax will be payable and any balance of Losses not used carried forward.
Ok, so if we ever make £5 million profit then these losses are worth about £1 million pounds.
I can’t get too excited about that. Greenan may make an operating profit, but corporate losses will negate that.
They urgently need to scale.
And yet it proves that the losses are not worthless as you said in a previous post irrelevant of any excitement it may stir in you
What is it that they need to scale so urgently?
Well to make a profit and generate shareholder returns of course!!!
What else are we here for??
Chris said that we had tens of millions in tax losses. We don’t.
They are worthless in terms of what should be attributed to the current market cap. The company has applied 100% discount in the accounts because there is no visibility of when / if the losses can ever be used to offset future profits.
I have argued the toss on this one because it is another case of Chris writing half truths with nothing to back it up. It helps everyone to have a truthful understanding of the company
I should also say I am grateful for Steve’s input keeping us all right!
I know why I am here I'm not sure quite what your reason is tbh
you said our tax losses where of no value when they clearly are ,you feel justified in questioning Chris's integrity for a innocent mistake yet fail to see it in yourself, your inability to read a relatively set of accounts says it all.
relatively straightforward
As I have said.
If losses are contouring to be made then they will accumulate until they can be used against trading losses. Not sure about any losses of previous investments. These may be treated as capital losses and be used against gains on investment disposals. So as we have made no profits in the previous three years no losses have been lost.
AA - I have admitted that I missed this in the accounts and was not quite sure about what these losses related to in terms of capital losses or trading losses. To be fair to me the company include this in a note and are not shouting about it like Chris is.
The losses are useless, so why are you and Chris making such a big deal out of them? At best they add a million pounds to the market cap at some point down the line - 5 years? 10 years? Do you think it’s good that the company continues to make large losses with little progress??
Why exactly are you still invested? You don’t seem in much of a hurry for the BOD to come good on their strategy (which is based on rapid scaling of NEW investments!)
If they do what they say they will then I would be happy to reinvest. At the moment they are consistently over promising and under delivering, and I can’t invest in that. The only other thing that could happen is they sell Ruvuma - this looks highly unlikely, but I understand that some will invest on the chance that this happens.
Give over colin/Mrc/d etc etc I explained that I thought they had 8 years of loses, corrected by steve to £5 million, you then tried to suggest I was talking about CGT. Maybe I did not explain myself well enough but on the other hand steve and AA were clearly able to grasp what I was referring to and now you try and turn it into some big deal and make a scene and accuse me of half truths.
Looks like more thumb sucking to me?