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BNAmericas has also covered this Mexico story, 2 days ago.
In the frame is BACANORA MINERALS & SONORA -GANFENG STORY as is with Reuters, 24.3.21.
-------
My comment:
So, after 1 night of intensive discussion on Wed, 24.3.21 on this forum and the shock of what I learnt, the MEXICAN GOVT AND PRESS HAVE ALSO CLUED ABOUT SONORA NOW.
If and when they find that the operator of SONORA has to be 66.5%, I am not sure if their blood pressure might rise as is norm when one gets a shock?
WELL, REM IS NOT INVOLVED AS IT HAS 30% FROM DAY 1 AND STILL INTACT OF SONORA.
AH, IF ONLY MR LENIGAS IS NOW IN CHARGE - HE COULD SPEAK TO THE MEXICAN GOVT.
NOW, THE BALL GOES TO BCN - its the 50% OF THEIR SONORA THAT IS NOW IN THE NEWS THAT HAS GONE OUT OF BCN*S HANDS.
Mr Lenigas was going to develop SONORA as far as I can or could ascertain as there is no info that if BCN WAS TAKEN OVER BY REM, HE WAS GOING TO SELL 50% OF SONORA TO ANYONE ELSE. THERE APPEARS NO OBJECTION WHEN 22.5% WAS SOLD BY BCN OF SONORA LITHIUM, MEXICO BUT SELLING 50% HAS NOW BROUGHT PRESS AND GOVT ATTENTION TO SONORA, NO 1 RANKED IN THE WORLD.
As I said, if Bolivia is in the news and a over-throw situ ALL on account of LITHIUM [check the Reuters news of 24.3.21 to see], then HOW MUCH MORE NO 1 IN THE WORLD SONORA.
TURN THE CLOCK BACK .
WELL DONE TO MR LENIGAS WHO FINANCED THE DRILLING AT SONORA LITHIUM, MEXICO UNDER REM, OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE NO SONORA TODAY.
News, Thur 25 Mar 2021. [REM*er]
CAVEAT: IT APPEARS.
BCN IS NOW IN THE NEWS PER REUTERS ARTICLE BELOW JUST OUT.
IF DAVID LENGIAS, CHAIRMAN, REM HAD TAKEN OVER BCN AT £1, THIS MAY NOT HAVE ARISEN AS HE DID NOT SAY HE WAS GOING TO SELL 50% OF SONORA which the Mexico appear to love?
Its the No 1 in the world and they must take great pride in it - its natural?
Thur, 25 Mar 2021. DYOR.
Latest article from Reuters below:
NOTHING SAID ABOUT REM @30% OF SONORA MEXALIT [greater JV lands] as it has NOT been sold etc.
However, the press asked about Ganfeng INCREASE STAKE FROM 22.5% TO 50% IN SONORA.
As discussed on this forum last night, that MEANS GAN NOW OWNS 35% OF GREATER SONORA because BCN*S ORIGINAL 70% JV WITH REM HAS DECREASED BY 50% TO JUST 35% AFTER THIS TRANSACTION MENTIONED BY REUTERS? So, now 35% GAN , 35% BCN AND 30% REM [ORIGINAL %].
Thur, 25 Mar 2021.
I have just posted a new article from Reuters dated 24 Mar 2021: "Mexico eyes bigger role in lithium industry: sees speculation in mining concessions."
As I said Mexico wants to be big/bigger in lithium and has made mention of the Bolivian situation re: lithium.
GANFENG IS MENTIONED IN THE ABOVE ARTICLE RE: INCREASED STAKE FROM 22.5% TO 50% IN SONORA.
REM HAS 30% SO AS SAID APPEARS TO BE OF VALUE AS ITS A CONCESSION? SONORA IS RANKED NO 1 IN THE WORLD FOR LITHIUM. SO, NOT SURPRISED THAT IT IS OF IMPORT?
JUST AS BOLIVIA IS OF IMPORT IN THE REUTERS ARTICLE WHICH ALSO TALKS OF MEXICO?
Now sure what the Mexican govt is going to do as it said it would NOT affect granted concessions but is now said to be analysing so one has to WAIT TO SEE WHAT COMES NEXT???
DYOR. PLEASE DO DUE DILIGENCE AND CHECK.
Thur, 25 Mar 2021.
Ref: "Midas share tips: REM well placed to benefit from big demand for lithium."-18 Oct 2014[Mail Online].
"Owns 1/3 of a lithium project in Mexico which has already discovered 3.3Mt ...EQUIVALENT to 10% of CURRENT ANNUAL SUPPLY.."
"Shares 1p, Mkt Cap £57m."
"Costs hard rock £2,800 per ton brine £1k and REM*s cost £1k or below cheaper than most rivals. Lithium selling for £4,4k"
----
Ref: "Small cap ideas: Bacanora Minerals offers ground level entry to EV switchover."-Mail Online, 21 Dec 2020
"VSA Capital: BCN HAS A LOWER DIRECT INTEREST IN SONORA....shareholders....
Ganfeng-Top 3 in the world with $17bn mkt cap.
BCN also owns Zinnwald in Germany [lithium] with Erris.- Mine life of Zinnwald is 30 YEARS with a value of $428 MILLION IN A STUDY."
----
ZINNWALD - 30 yrs mine life $428m value put in a study.
So, a 250 year mine life potentially for SONORA RANKED NO 1 IN THE WORLD - one can do some simple maths although the jurisdiction is better in Germany being in the EU. Zinnwald has a seperate listing in London.
----
REM HAD A 20% STAKE IN BCN AND 20% IN EMH, Europe*s largest lithium deposit in Czech Republic, EU. The 20% stake in BCN is no longer current but the EMH stake is still 10% per last reporting [EMH had a recent mkt cap of some £175m or so.]
Thur, 25 Mar 2021.
contd
otherwise SONORA would NOT EXIST as co*s in Canada could NOT raise capital at the time [historical ]. Hence, how David Lenigas took a shell and renamed it REM plc starting with a £1m *s info of £95m]. Most bought in at 0.9p or 1p.
REM - SONORA
So, effectively, BCN-GANFENG NOW OWN 70% [35% 35% EQUALLY via 50% stake in Sonora by Ganfeng?].
OPERATOR HAS TO HAVE 66.5% per Observer842 with thanks and link.
*******SO, IT WILL NOW BE OPERATOR, SONORA 66.5% ---VERSUS ---- REM AT 30%.******
How BCN and Ganfeng will settle the operatorship status will be subject to more news and that is not within REM *s business or remit.
----------WOW! REM IS NOW 30% VS 66.5% OPERATOR.------------
------REM HAS OVERNIGHT BECOME THE JV PARTNER WITH THE OPERATOR-----
---REM STAKE OF 30% IS NOW ALMOST EQUAL TO BCN 35% STAKE [for now]------
---REM HAS GONE FROM 30% VS BCN 70% PREVIOUSLY, a smaller player to a SIGNIFICANT PLAYER--------
BCN has a share price of <45p, MKt Cap £145m.
REM-KDNC @18p has a mkt cap of <£24m. I have not checked today so just approx.
B
Well done to Mr David Lenigas, Founder and Chairman of REM plc who put shareholders in this enviable position by way of his CONTRACT BNC- REM. The word REM is marked in the map for the 50 years part of the next SONORA shaded part.
I cannot provide any warranty and hence up to each one to do due diligence and research & checking. This is only for discussion only.
News,
Thur 25 Mar 2021.
Thanks to Barksy1 [REM*er from days of old] and Observer842 [old-timer in REM] and me on this open discussion. Pity Ivybush did not take up my invitation to chat here with any input.
This discussion is open to all as on KDNC.pl, I did say that info about Sonora was on this forum which is appropriate as REM IS NAMED IN THE SONORA AGREEMENT - MAP AND NOT KDNC.
REM was later named KDNC after Mr Lenigas was no longer Chairman.
DYOR.
[35% BCN, 35% GANFENG TO DECIDE CONTROLLING % BY WHATEVER WAY in terms of further corporate moves]
---------SONORA LITHIUM, MEXICO - NO 1 RANKED GLOBALLY -----
[ref: Mining Technology of 10 Largest]
BACANORA - GANFENG
Ganfeng paid 25p to take a 29.9% stake in Bacanora.
Also, Ganfeng took a 22.5% DIRECT STAKE in Sonora that in Nov increased to 50% exercise option of £21.9m.
[Ref: "Bacanora Lithium gets big boost as Ganfeng ups stake in Sonora."-Proactive Investors, 17 Nov 2020.
--------
REM used to own 20% of Bacanora stock - the Canadian rules were that any holder of a 20% stake can make a TAKEOVER offer. Indeed, that did happen and BCN said that REM offer £1 which they rejected.
In the UK, the takeover rules are DIFFERENT is it needs 29%+ for a takeover. So, hence, Ganfeng has 29.9% [NO FURTHER DETAILS given as sometimes there is more detail about the 29%+ threshold].
-----
GANFENG -50% OWNERSHIP OF SONORA with BCN.
So, what Observer842 said is correct.
Mexilit SA de C.V [El Sauz & Fleur] that used to be 70% OWNED BY BACANORA [BCN] & 30% REM will now turn into 35% BCN, 35% GANFENG [by virtue of the new 50% ownership by Ganfeng of the SONORA CONCESSION etc ITSELF] & 30% REM [the original co].
OPERATORSHIP OF SONORA
Per Observer842, the detailed fine print is that the OPERATOR of Sonora Mexalit has to HOLD A 66.5% SHARE NOT THE USUAL 51% [1% more than 50%] as is the norm.
SONORA MEXALIT
The shaded part which has studies etc done is for 50 YEARS vs 19 years for the 1ST VENTANA PRODUCTION [88% lies in Ventana that BCN used to own 100% but now cut down to 50% as above]. SONORA HAS A POTENTIAL MINE LIFE OF 250 YEARS so both the shaded part [50 yr mine life] and unshaded part of Maxilit forms THE LARGER AND BIGGER MINE LIFE POTENTIALLY [ 250 years minus 19 years minus 50 years = 181 years].
BY WAY OF COMPARISION, THACKER PASS, NEVADA, USA OWNED BY LITHIUM AMERICAS HAS A TOTAL MINE LIFE OF 46 YEARS - THACKER IS RANKED NO 2 IN THE WORLD. Lithium Americas owns Thacker Pass 100% and has a mkt cap of some $2billion+ with 2 projects ie Cauhari in Argentine and Thacker Pass. Ganfeng has just paid $16m to gain the extra 1% to bring its stake in Cauhari, Argentine to 51% [assume ownership if norm as normally 51% has operatorship?].
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE GREATER SONORA LANDS - MEXALIT?
Since it is specifically written that operatorship has to be 66.5%, that means that ONLY BCN & GANFENG [35% + 35% = 70%] can become the OPERATOR as this meets the threshold of 66.5%.
BCN cannot get together with REM to form the OPERATOR [35% + 30% = 65%, SHORT of 66.5%].
Can BCN and Ganfeng become EQUAL OPERATORS? They can but usually there is only 1 operator and joint operatorship is not the norm per my own personal experience only? So, if Ganfeng UPS their stake FURTHER in SONORA PROJECT DIRECTLY FROM 50%, then it is possible that they have a slight % edge over BCN. This is outside the scope of REM as shareholders are only interested in REM plc under David Lenigas as Founder and Chairman who brought in this project
ANOTHER DL CO IN THE NEWS: AOU
A tweet: "This ASX stock to help BHP help Tesla.
Named is Vulcan Energy : +1, 638% [this is the Australian lithium co that has a lithium proj in German. Gina Rinehart and son are big stake holders. Yeah, she knows how to hedge iron O."
EMH is named also. - a DL pick.
Now, Auroch is making the news for nickel - a DL pick for KDNC.
Its all over Twitter among Aussies but I have not looked into it yet in detail.
https://twitter.com/PilbaraWolfee/status/1374540743079989249 19 hrs ago.
Wed, 24 .3.21.
Since so many people are talking about AOU for the nickel and maybe lithium, it could be they hit...? biggish? big? Will find out when I have more time. NICKEL IS A BATTERY METAL which Elon Musk is chasing after and that*s what he says he needs.
Oh, I cite the example of Solgold. Solg owns for example 85% of the licence and the other 15% is owned by the other co in Canada.
Solgold not so long ago made an offer to buy this 15% from the other co in exchange for shares. Why? Apparently, it is more difficult if there is a 15% holder but they chose NOT to give details but this is something generally known especially in property issues.
Ah, so.
Mr S also talked about 20,30 and 50kt from recall at the video interview, 3 wks ago but did NOT mention about the JV*s but he did say that the placing was done at 20% discount.
Foks are like in a spin as to why their co is lower than EMH, another REM investee co in terms of mkt cap.
Well, the market may be cognisant that the perceived mkt cap is to the % held, hence why Lithium Americas has a $2bn + valuation ie mkt cap and so have many other co*s that have no JV.
Just for discussion as to the merits and non-merits of JV*s etc and how it is difficult.
Now, there*s 3!!! LoL, even more complex now.
REM 30%.
When those folks that are asking find out they have 35% I am not sure what happens next?
Their blood pressure may go up.
Obs,
SNAP!!!
I was looking like ....to find out. BCN at £145m for 70% of SONORA, the most desired at NO 1 ranked or KDNC at 30% at £24m. That sounds like a A level paper question.
Exactly, I was doing the EXERCISE TO FIND OUT EXACTLY THIS.
I was chopping KDNC MKT CAP into tiny bits to find this out as to how far there is give or FREEBEE in the price.
Secker NEVER mentions REM in his video*s as if it does not exist at all ie Cruxinvestors video, 3 wks ago.
Yeah, if anyone want to do they have to do LOADS OF SUMS and how this is going to play out.
Will REM WIN ROUND 2?
REM lost ROUND 1 ie takeover?
Is there a slip and DL had the greater legals to draft the REM-BCN agreement?
Ah, one would like to see that agreement and take a magnifying glass to the SMALL LETTERS.
Yes, Obs.
If BCN liked us to bit, then yes. But thus far, REM has never passed their lips even at the Cruxinvestors video interview.
So, lets say that it may be a bit too hopeful.
Given 35%, 35% is stronger than 30% cos that extra 5% that either of them hold is still stronger in terms of %.
However, even if it was 35% + 30%=65% which as you say has another small clause that says majority 66.66% in this project.
Well, that is a real soup now? As said, of the legal type.
This will be just like the Amapa situ cos now can REM have a strong position as the 30% holder ie NOT AGREE. However, as said if they HAVE MINORITY RIGHTS, THEN IF AKIN TO CO LAW, ITS NOT A VERY STRONG ONE.
Hmm, one for the AGM question by whoever is interested?
Of course, DL would know cos he signed the agreement and knows if there are more...for REM benefit?
I'm sure you know this, but I believe BCN refer to REM in their corporate presentation because they are referring to one of our 100% owned subsidiaries: "REM Mexico Limited". Page 53:
https://www.cadenceminerals.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Cadence-Minerals-AR-2019-FINAL.pdf
Either that, or they don't want their shareholders looking KDNC up and buying here instead if they perceive there to be more upside in the event of expansion plans ;-)
Ob.
See, what I mean by never just jumping in WITHOUT fully getting EVERY bit of info and due diligence. This demonstrates it.
Page 243 and 244 of the admission document is what I was thinking of:
https://www.bacanoralithium.com/pdfs/Companys-AIM-admission-document.pdf
===[
shareholder approval (from the holders of 2/3 of the issued shares) is required in certain circumstances including on the issue or grant of rights in shares, borrowing, granting security, sale or disposal of any of the REM JV1 Concessions;
]===
May not be what you were after, but I had it in mind as I was wondering whether if REM and Ganfeng joined forces we could force a sale of BCN's 35%. Answer is probably no, but Ganfeng and BCN could probably force a sale of our 30% for the right price under drag-along and tag-along rights.
For the record, Mr C said I was naive re: DL.
How can I be naive. I have demonstrated that DL was in fact the clever one as related here today.
Also, the BCN presentation states: BCN - R E M.
So, it was REM under DL.
DL said he had it written in that they ie REM COULD DISPOSE OF THEIR 30% SEPERATELY WITHOUT ANY REFERENCE TO BCN. Hope so.
So, how is this going to play out? BCN cannot join up with 30% = 65% operator.
So, Gan takes over BCN [hypothesis], that will could mean 70% STAKE IN SONORA JV LANDS?
Even then, REM could object but maybe company law comes in as REM with 30% and the takeover co has 70%, then REM could be deem or looked at as the MINORITY HOLDER. In shares, that is the case of minority holders and the legals that pertains to it.
However, in this case, I am not sure about this aspect?
Have to check if I have time or think about it as minority holders have limited rights but to what extent in a commercial transaction of a deposit, I am not yet clear at the moment.
AH. YES, MORE AND MORE COMPLICATIONS OF THE LEGAL TYPE WHEN IT IS NOT 100% OWNED NOR IS IT 70-30% NOW.
LoL - wonder if X knows?
LoL
Trust a TINY CLAUSE IN SMALL LETTERS.
Majority is 66.66%!! A LEGAL OVERIDER WAS BUILT IN to supercede the normal 51%.
In the case of Cauhari, Gan has paid a whopping $16m just for that EXTRA 1% to Lithium Americas to earn 51%, not the old 50%.
Hmmm.
For what's it's worth I remember reading somewhere that majority is defined as 66.66% for this project. Meaning that REM and another can't gang up as that would only be 65% (30% +35%)
NEXT, LITCHFIELD.
A lithium property to XXXX for - Core wants to throw money ie buy from what I perceive of what they said of nearby ltihium having just raised $40m just like that with international institutions giving them telephone no*s.
What about that?
Again, another DESIRABLE LITHIUM POST-CODE THAT BELONGS TO THE NEW REM-KDNC?
How about that?
Mystery NOT SOLVED.
Are they are are they not into lithium? That was DL*s vision and he acted on it ie SONORA AND CINOVEC.
Wed, 24 Mar 2021.
Same here for me, Barksy1 - that*s our perception only.
Obs, I think the maths now works out to be 35% BCN, 35% GAN & 30% REM.
Now then, THERE IS NO OPERATOR here at 51% ie legal MAJORITY HOLDER.
Given BCN and Gan are seperate ENTITIES for legal reasons and otherwise [NO MERGER OF CO*S], that means that there is going to be a LEGAL PROBLEM.
NOTHING CAN PASS WITHOUT REM*S APPROVAL.
WITH THAT, IT ALSO MEANS THAT THE 2 IE BCN AND GAN DO NOT HAVE MAJORITY OPERATORSHIP.
If BCN merges with REM ie 35% + 30%= 65% then there is MAJORITY HOLDING OF OVER 50%. Only 51% MAJORITY CAN ONE BE THE OPERATOR.
LoL- NOW ITS STUCK.
Hence, why in property, any % SPLIT can cause problem, say giving son and daughter 30%, 30%, 30% and 10% to someone else. They*ll be in a fix once the % are like that. Hard to sell as there is no clear ownership and anyone one does not agree ie SIGN AGREEMENT = nothing gets done.
Well, what a situation now re: SONORA GREATER JV LANDS.
It’s only how I see it News, probably not like most people see it ...
And so, the story of Sonora is told?
Hmm, now I know why they say that when there is something worth a kings ransom ie fortune, watch it.
Finito.!!!
I was looking for answers and praise God, I decided to perservere to ask questions. I am the kid in school that ask questions and NOT DIVE IN.
Now, the COIN HAS DROPPED.
Otherwise, I could have GOT BURNED to cinders.
God saved me as I had this unease over a lot of questions marks.
BARKSY1 - what can I say?
Luckily we’ve ducked out of Bcn at the right time ... as it stands at the moment
Hmmmm!
Barksy1---------yah-------------yes--REM, REM go go.
DL is no Dxxx - he was smart. Oh Mr I wanted DL to buy another 19% but it was too expensive.
That is also clever.
I figured out some time ago that DO NOT GET IN TOO DEEP - once REM gets 49%, it has to find 49% of capex etc and STILL IS NOT THE OPERATOR. The operator has to have 51%, that extra 1% to be the operator. The operator CALLS ALL THE SHOTS.
Oh, my did they catch a BARRACUDA.
What people are having an OVER-THROW SITU FOR LITHIUM AND HERE, IT WAS GIVEN FOR pence to the £--------------ah, dear me.
I need to sit down.