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Started: silverknight, 30 Apr 2024 10:10
Last post: Krustysmegma, 2 May 2024 10:11
You're right silverknight, we don't have dividend dates going forward which would have been helpful. However, it would be normal for biannual payers to declare an interim dividend with the half-year report and a final dividend at the full year.
Thanks. I was aware of your first point and now remember the other issues. We still don't have a calender for divis going forward do we?
Started: silverknight, 29 Apr 2024 18:23
Last post: 34adsaddsa, 29 Apr 2024 20:26
No, you're missing a few things.
1. They've switched to two dividends per year.
2. In 2023, only some of the shares were eligible to receive dividends. Old Pollen Street shareholders didn't receive full dividends due to the terms of the merger agreement. They are now entitled to full dividends so although the total £ paid out in dividends is higher, the dividend per share is lower because it's spread across more shares
3. The company is buying back shares so the £33M is becoming more dividend per share with each share bought back because repurchased shares aren't entitled to dividends.
I thought I'd seen that another 13p payment's due on 28th June Krusty(maybe I'm mistaken) They said on the IMC presentation that dividends would total £33mill against £32 mill last year so I would expect at least 54pps. Here's hoping.
Started: silverknight, 26 Apr 2024 14:27
Last post: Krustysmegma, 29 Apr 2024 09:15
I'm expecting half-year payments in September & March silverknight, subject to confirmation. I've pencilled in 27p + 27p = 54p but that might be a bit optimistic.
Struggling for clarity on dividends going forward. Is it same again at the end of June and then a double payment in December to reflect the change to biannual payments?
Started: wildtiger, 21 Mar 2024 17:09
Last post: wildtiger, 22 Mar 2024 07:55
To me it's now trading at fair value, I might come back if it dips below 500p which I believe it will on any bad news, either on the company itself or their sector
Their guidiance for this year and next is way too optimistic. It's good div stock though if you are looking for income rather than growth
You don't believe the current numbers or you don't believe they will meet their future targets?
Sold all at 600p. Dont believe their “story”
Started: Krustysmegma, 21 Mar 2024 11:03
Last post: Krustysmegma, 21 Mar 2024 11:03
Excellent results, plus significant upgrade to 2024 forecast. Even the market can't ignore this one, significant re-rate this morning. For anyone watching MAFS Australia, Deeeeeece!
Started: Krustysmegma, 8 Mar 2024 09:06
Last post: 34adsaddsa, 8 Mar 2024 14:34
Because it is being bought by Pollen's PE funds, not directly by Pollen.
Announcement on the MTW site this morning of an agreed bid from Pollen Street Capital (see POLN Share News above) so why no RNS here?
Started: Krustysmegma, 20 Feb 2024 09:31
Last post: Krustysmegma, 20 Feb 2024 09:31
Directors filling their boots this morning, nice rise in the SP too disguised as a 4% fall...
Started: GekkoGordon, 13 Feb 2024 10:20
Last post: wildtiger, 13 Feb 2024 13:11
There's a seller in the background, once they are done this will bounce back above 600
I think it's FCA related contagion fears.
I don't think it's warranted. I think any historical exposure to consumer vehicle finance is extremely low and they've never offered low interest loans.
Hopefully we'll see a comment in a Q4 trading update this month.
Tangible NAV per share (i.e. the legacy loan book) was 542p at June 30th. Current SP means you get a slight discount and then the asset manager for free. A strange turn of events.
Started: Zarro, 13 Feb 2024 09:14
Last post: Zarro, 13 Feb 2024 09:14
It seems to me that there is something deeply wrong with the UK markets when trading in 600,000 shares amounting to say £3m (or just 1% of market cap) over 10 days can move the share price by 15-20%.
I am no expert but it appears to me that the combination of the SETS electronic trading system and allowing computer driven trading (probably between 2 accounts controlled by the same ultimate entity with a position in the futures markets) is making the market uninvestable for the private investor. RIP UK Stock Market unless the authorities get on top of this.
Started: Zarro, 12 Feb 2024 08:06
Last post: wildtiger, 13 Feb 2024 08:35
Added more this morning to bring my average down to 570
Thanks 34ad. Presumably that means that any uplift in value upon IPO from carry value is mainly for the benefit of the investors in the relevant fund or funds that the shawbrook holding is held in but Pollen get benefit from their % management fee applying to a higher AUM figure and perhaps some performance / success fees depending on the detail of the management agreement.......
It's one of the assets in Pollen's PE funds.
The private equity owners of Shawbrook are seeking to revive plans for a float of the bank in a potential boost to the London stock market. Some City investors are understood to have been sounded out about a possible initial public offering of Shawbrook, which was bought by BC Partners and Pollen Street Capital for £868 million in 2017. - The Times
I presume this is one of the Assets in the 'New' Pollen. Can anyone confirm?
Started: broomtree, 24 Jan 2024 13:49
Last post: 34adsaddsa, 9 Feb 2024 19:03
Yes, a minimum annual dividend of 51p which is progressive, paid every 6 months.
Ha ha I know exactly what I’m doing but I made a mistake here listening to the bull and potential - big capital hit but just about covered by income….
£6 was better in the grand scheme of things and can get a better quarterly rate elsewhere, if I’ve understood this right it’s going to biannual payments
This drop has not nothing to do with the company itself, other PE funds dropped similar amount.
I believe this is the only one that pays a decent dividend
If you've been holding since before the merger then I'm sorry for your losses.
Broomtree you sound like you dont know what you doing, maybe best to stick to index funds
Started: Krustysmegma, 20 Dec 2023 15:49
Last post: 34adsaddsa, 17 Jan 2024 17:39
UK 30yr yields bottomed on the 27th of December at 4%. Now they're back up to 4.638%. We're pinging around with those.
Whatever it was asda, it didn't last very long! Back down to earth with a bump.
I think just lower inflation and lower interest rate expectations. That means private equity is likely to be more successful, and the dividend yield on offer here just looks too high.
Not sure what the driver is for the current re-rate but whatever it is it's very welcome.
Last post: Krustysmegma, 13 Dec 2023 09:53
Moving to bi-annual dividend payment though, so we probably won't see another payment until Sep/Oct.
I note the March dividend is being brought forward to January prior to the newco being established. Happy days.
I hold a number of 'asset' managers. This RNS must be the first I've seen in since months of AUM rising.......
Started: CaneToad, 19 Oct 2023 10:57
Last post: damofarl, 26 Oct 2023 23:44
34adsaddsa;
Your make a pertinent point about honeycomb. I too feel pollen hijacked the certainty/focus/profitability of honeycomb into the uncertainty of asset mgmt/PE. A classic example of trying to be all things to all people and ending up as nothing to nobody. That said, I'm a fan of POLN, mainly because the heritage honeycomb assets are still throwing off cash (due to their origination time and rising rates) but also because I believe all asset managers are undervalued in the context that their are too many of them, with high fixed costs that are ripe for consolidation/economies of reducing such overhead in their increasing shrinking in the face of the popularity (rightly in my opinion) of ETFs to deliver equivalent performance at lower cost.
But then I am a contrarian/esoteric/patient investor. For now I'm holding firm, but if/when it transpires that the old honeycomb is CONTINUALLY propping up/flattering the PE/asset mgmt side, I'll exit.
I feel I'm in the minority here, but actually I'm quite comfortable as is.
I think that dividend target is very likely to be exceeded, primarily because interest rates have risen and repaid loans are being recycled into higher interest loans.
The tiny cut in 2017 is irrelevant. The dividend dropped in 2022 because of the merger and the issue of shares. The new PE side of the business wasn't really making any money so the FCF available from the investment assets couldn't cover as much dividend per share because there were more shares. That's why the new shares issued to old pollen street holders aren't receiving full dividends. They wanted to give time for the PE side of the business to produce the predicted FCF. The merger would probably been rejected without that.
"As part of the terms of the Combination, former Pollen Street Capital Holdings Limited shareholders waived dividends paid to them in 2022 and 2023 with respect to approximately 50 per cent of the shares issued to them by the Group. As such, the
dividend targets correspond to a dividend per share of 16p for each quarter for 2023 and at least 25.5p for each half year for
2024."
IMO old honeycomb shareholders got screwed over, but the shares crashed as a result and I don't invest through the rear view mirror.
I think the answer here is dilution - the company has been addings lots more shares during this time. I can understand why the private credit business is doing well atm, but not private equity/asset management. I don't trust the valuations on those businesses and will pass on any investment until it becomes clear. I don't see any compelling investment here, that's not already achievable (at higher/more consistent yield/better quality) in the US market. And one thing for sure is that nobody else here understands POLN.
Why is it that the dividend has been dropping steadily since ? e.g. the Liberum forecast is:
DPS (p) 2017: 84.5, 2018: 80, 2019: 80, 2020: 80, 2021: 80, 2022: 72, 2023: 64, 2024: 50.8
I can appreciate that the recent drop is due to the increased tax after changing from an investment trust to ordinary company? but it's been dropping for years... where's the benefit? why is this attractive to an income investor?
Pollen street differs quite meaningfully from a BDC following the merger of the management company and the investment trust. Investors now have partial ownership of a balance sheet of an investment assets (like a BDC/investment trust) but also an ownership stake in the management business (which manages external funds on behalf of institutions). I'd suggest looking at companies like ICG or Tikehau in the UK for a comparison or KKR in the US.
I've been digging deeper as the yield rises and becomes more attractive, but this company has always seemed very opaque to me. From what I can tell, they carry on two activities:
1) Private Equity
2) Private Credit
The credit business looks like a US Business Development Company (BDC), but it won't have the same tax advantages nor the pedigree. Some of the BDCs hold equity stakes to boost their returns, so POLN is not that unusual in that respect. Most BDCs yield around 10%, so this is not that unusual, but it seems to me that there is much less info on the precise makeup of the portfolio, non-accrual status, previous default levels etc, so I'm not super excited to invest here yet.
Hi damfori
I have lost interest in it.
Will it continue to pay dividends in the future as streamed interest?
Why stop being an investment trust?
Anyway good luck with your investments.
Hi SD235; I disagree. Yeah there is a lot of promotional waffle and image positioning, but what they do is there. Have a look at pages 67 and 68 of their 02/03/22 presentation for starters.
As for paying their dividends? Well page 66 gives a clue - the structured debt (the old Honeycomb) is valued there at £550 mill, yet provided receipts in the preceding 12 months of £266 mill.
Yes there is a lot of fluff on their website - astute investors will also disseminate the detail therein.
There is insufficient information on there site for a professional investor to understand what they do.
How do they pay all dividends as streamed interest?
Hence I didn't invest.
Last post: damofarl, 4 May 2023 00:11
Any views on why this has risen 20% since the last post?
Started: Krustysmegma, 23 Mar 2023 09:08
Last post: 34adsaddsa, 29 Mar 2023 10:21
But yes, I think Honeycomb shareholders did get screwed. Pollen Street was valued as if they were already producing the sort of profits they were projecting in the future - that shouldn't have been accepted by Honeycomb management. All quite dodgy. Upside for people buying in around here is that we're now in the same hive as the people who screwed us. There aren't any special share classes so we should benefit from their nous.
I'm glad the preference shares got blocked. I don't think like the idea of the company having them and it shows Pollen Street management can't just do what ever they want.
I don't think it's now appropriate to think of it being at a "discount". I think of it as a investment trust trading at about NAV with an option on a private equity firm thrown in for free.
Share price downside is limited due to investment trust part unless the economy really collapses. If they can get private equity AUM up a chunk more then it'll start making lots of money and the shares and/or dividend will go up significantly.
Afraid I got suckered proper with this! Had Honeycomb for a few years for income and it was great all the way through COVID - didn’t fancy the merger with reduced divi but everything I read seemed positive, Pollen St held great Companies! As Honeycomb when the discount went over 5% they did buybacks to bring it in. I’ve lost nearly 50% in capital value with a reduced divi. The most frustrating thing is their shareholder communications is non-existent, don’t respond to emails, reading results they don’t even mention the discount going out to a ridiculous level; on the verge of just taking a hit but it’s a massive loss; in theory the discount might come in as a Plc? Hmmm
I think I will add to Biopharma or riverstone credit opportunities.
That dividend "news" is very old.
Started: SD235, 2 Mar 2023 10:13
Last post: SD235, 2 Mar 2023 14:22
Opps fell 3.5% after my last post!
Not much either way. No increase leading up to dividend. Nor fall exdivided. Odd.
Started: SD235, 1 Mar 2023 19:27
Last post: Krustysmegma, 2 Mar 2023 10:10
Fair enough SD235, I stand corrected.
"Net Asset Value
The unaudited net asset value of the Group as at 31 December 2022 was £578 million, which is equivalent to £9.00 per share. The tangible net asset value was £347 million, equivalent to £5.40 per share. "
Hargreaves Lansdowne has it at £9.12
NAV £5.40, not £9.
At least you got the 16p dividend right, so I guess one out of three ain't bad?
XD 2 March, not 3 March, so trading XD now. XD almost always on a Thursday in this country.
Ex-Dividend 3 March
there was a lot of dilution at time of merger, they haven't reported a NAV per share for months' discount is not what it appears
#Honeycombe, not Honeystreet.
You need to look at what Honeystreet invested in to answer that question. See page 15 below:
https://www.fundslibrary.co.uk/FundsLibrary.DataRetrieval/Documents.aspx/?type=sl.ra.full&id=555afc79-d847-4f8d-af2d-6c070e473336&user=WPxtVr07ym%2fSTBdsKMPbJKqiNXVyF8mhMZmaO%2fDp46fxEdo5Fq7Y6wUGkQfqPez7&r=1
The joke is the email address is ‘investor relations’
Not answering emails doesn't help either. Some investment trusts have got back to me within an hour.
Started: silverknight, 23 Dec 2022 17:46
Last post: silverknight, 23 Dec 2022 17:46
Hmm. They make the right noises and Liberum like them but the sp and yield suggest great scepticism going into a recession. Let's see what 2023 brings.
Started: silverknight, 21 Dec 2022 14:57
Last post: silverknight, 21 Dec 2022 14:57
I've got a belated acknowledgement. They will be in touch. Hopefully.
Started: silverknight, 20 Dec 2022 18:36
Last post: silverknight, 20 Dec 2022 18:36
Yes I emailed without response too. Somebody must know what's happening. What happens to this mighty yield going forward?
Last post: broomtree, 20 Dec 2022 14:00
Well oh how the mighty have fallen! Honeycomb used to aim for a 5% discount and adjust using buybacks since this great merger it has now gone out to 50% with a £4 fall in the share price and silence from the managers - won’t even reply to investor queries - shocking management