George Frangeskides, Chairman at ALBA, explains why the Pilbara Lithium option ‘was too good to miss’. Watch the video here.
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Hawkspear. We do indeed have similar mindsets. As an aside my original choice of career was to be in mining engineering to HND or Degree level, but when I saw Macgregor's plan for coal. (Thatchers got one, Macgregor is one and we want one as per the miners strike placards at ferrybridge c power station). I changed my mind and got a degree in Agricultural Animal Science instead. Farming is a funny game as you need a working knowledge of many subjects. As a Farm manager you might need to communicate with vets, feed reps, soil scientists, geneticists, equipment suppliers etc to name but a few. I have also had a lot of conversations with mechanical engineers as many big farms have a well equipped workshop on site. Full engine rebuilds, fabrication of bespoke equipment and such like are not uncommon.
That's interesting DJM27 your background is in farming and mine is in mechanical engineering, both of which aren't a million miles away from mining. I have to agree with you that open cast mining is the way forward for both Bangladesh and GCM its not only cheaper, quicker and more efficient but it gives many advantages to the Bangladeshi people to get their economies on a firmer footing, growth is essential to this country.
Hawkspear. Fair enough I agree with you that electric powered vehicles and battery technology are improving all the time. I think that we are in agreement that open cast mining would be good for the Bangladeshi economy. The proof of the pudding will be when the mine starts its preparatory work and then production. Shareholders will have access to the equipment inventory. Who knows, maybe the equipment used might be newly launched models. The various BOD's and advisors will decide on equipment that is both cost effective and up to the job. If the equipment is also environmentally friendly that would be the icing on the cake! At present battery powered equipment is available but is only suitable for niche applications, although the equipment manufacturers like to give the impression that there tackle is the best thing since sliced bread. In my own experience of electric tractors they are only at present useful for yard work (short shifts), the internal combustion engine is king for field work where 16 hour plus shifts are needed to get the job done before rain stops play!
Regarding the overburden at Phulbari I agree that it may present a challenge to clear the area using electric powered mining equipment, but I think that it could and would be done in the conventional way, it's a bit like power generation arguement no one solution fits all, so compromise is always on the agenda.
further to your comments yesterday phulbari. the fact no anti phulbari squad has mobilised to date, given press releases, energy minister openly talking open pit mining tells its own story (probably the full story).
a lot has changed since 2005, namely it was hasina’s first term (public and international image had big importance) with 2024 she’s just been reelected for her last….
20 years in govt later she’s (hopefully) realised imf loans are bleeding them dry (take neighbouring ****stan as a prime example), with recent investment from in main the chinese govt, bangla are moving in the right direction. mining what’s in their back yards needs to be done now by them or it will be done later to pay interests on debt by someone else.
DJM27 I wasn't suggesting that we use fully electric draglines. What I was saying in relation to your statement about using electric vehicles for mining was that I think that is entirely possible to use electric powered mining equipment without any major problems. I was merely trying to say that electric powered mining equipment was now being used to good effect in different parts of the world without any problems.
Hawkspear. Electric mining equipment. I think we have a chicken and egg situation with mining equipment suitable for Bangladeshi conditions. Fully electric draglines need a High voltage (perhaps13,500 Volt) power supply to be cabled in. The reason why they want to mine their own coal is to stabilise their power supply system a large drag line machine would probably blackout the entire country!. As far as electric dump trucks are concerned they work when they go down hill fully laden and go back up the hill empty, they generate energy by regenarative braking. There are only a few mines where this topography ensues a mine in Austria and one in Australia are prime examples. The overburden at Phulbari would need to be carted up hill therefore the dump truck would not generate enough power to recharge itself. I stand to be corrected if I have misunderstood the situation. I have only had indirect contact with open pit mining, via my career in farm management where I was part of a Team that re-instated a spent mine back to Agricultural land.
One more post from me, then i am off for a while .... The question was asked yesterday about the people of Phulbari and the resettlement program... below is taken from the Final Results RNS..................
Feedback from government agencies indicates the desire for the local people to be stakeholders and to be motivated to support projects, i.e., offer employment, provide education and fairly compensate for land required and people displaced. The Project's Resettlement Action Plan ("RAP") comprehensively deals with the government's desires for the local people and was prepared as part of the coal mine's all-encompassing Environmental and Social Impact Assessment. The specific requirements of the local people were captured in surveys covering families within and immediately adjacent to the Project Area. A demographic survey was also carried out in 2019 to update the population and household trends. GCM is committed to lift the amenity of its local community and will ensure the RAP will deliver:
· Full and fair compensation prior to displacement;
· Fairness, transparency and choice;
· Higher living standards (town/village sites improved amenities);
· Financial grants to enhance livelihoods;
· Training and preferential employment; and
· Support of farmers to enhance agricultural production.
GCM maintains facilities in the Project area and its resident field team is in close contact with the community and local authorities. The field team is assisted by 67 Community Liaison Assistants ("CLA's"), recruited from across the Project Area.
Absolutely Searcher I'd forgotten about the Solar Project, I am not sure whether Bangladesh has a wind power project as well, if they have then maybe that could also be a net contributor to the mining industry. If not there is also the generator option if push comes to shove, if they need to use the power generated to power the rest of the country
They’d need some big batteries searcher, assuming they will be charging overnight ;-)
The solar power project is surely a sweetener for the greens in BD.
I share your concerns about charging, but as I said that could be overcome in the short term by using generators. I know it's not ideal but it would only be a short term measure and the longer term gains are there for all to see, for that reason I really don't see it being a problem.
From the GCM, RNS ........
Reference the Solar project ....................
"The solar project's intention would be that should the solar project become operational that it would be capable of providing power to support the Phulbari Coal and Power Project and the National grid."
I think you're right about the main problem would be charging. They could only charge when they've actually got electricity. With power cuts and load sharing, it might be a big problem.
DJM27 you have said that the size of equipment for open cast mining can never be electrically powered? I think that you will find that it is already in use in Russia, Eurasia mining are using electric powered draglines for open cast mining and I'm sure that they would use more power than dumpers that you have mentioned. So I can't see any other reason for not using electric power vehicles other than charging issues, which I'm sure can be overcome.
Judging by BEN's experience in the US it depends on cost of production and transportation.
Hard to believe that open pit mining in Bangladesh will be anywhere near the expense of BEN's ops though so I'd go with a (non expert) yes vote.
Very interesting discussions about all things mining.
I wonder if Bangladesh could afford to export excess coal if all mines were given the go ahead.
Take your positions indeed.
How funny LSE won’t allow the website because of the name of the company 😂😂😂
I’ve now put a gap in the website, so you’ll have to copy and paste and take away the link if your interested in viewing it 🙄
www.ben derinc.com/solutions/mining/open-pit-mining/
here is a link to electric open pit mining equipment…. quite interesting…
https://www.******inc.com/solutions/mining/open-pit-mining/
Sorry, should of said electric mining equipment
The irony is they won’t have the guaranteed electricity to recharge those beasts and they will be very expensive I’m guessing. It would be silly to have to run diesel generators to charge them even though these have been the norm in BD for decades.
Still, it’s good to see where technology is taking us.
I have no experience of mining equipment, but just from a quick google search, it does seem to be available, and after watching some of the videos in the link below, seems to be the way forward in mining equipment….. The link is showing equipment for underground mining, but there are also others with open pit mining equipment….
https://www.epiroc.com/en-uk/innovation-and-technology/zero-emission?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwk6SwBhDPARIsAJ59GweDk07rXYVWZtPwqAfsNxXAAnf_6wvjvzWHUgj6Fx7JqdMO2AcezWUaAtOPEALw_wcB
....dump trucks - DJM27 interesting post but how up to date are you on your electric vehicle technology.
A few weeks ago I saw a photo of an electric (battery powered) dump truck working at Pilbara, Western Australia - load capacity 300 tonnes.
Doing a google check this am, it is now 400 tonnes. A lot of the technology is F1 stuff with energy recovery from the braking systems. These machines are expensive to buy @ 2.5 X normal diesel machine costs but what a fantastic selling point for the project at Phulbari.
I am probably the only person on this BBD who has his own machines - here in SW France - a Jeremy Bamford JCB digger and Terex 1 tonne dumper - luvvly, like co-workers on the project, those big Komatsu machines are 'deal-makers' - how can anybody talk them down, Interestingly, one of the biggest manufacturers is an Indian company, I'm sure the Chinese can copy those if necessary.......
HenrytheEighth .Mining equipment. The size of equipment needed for open cast mining means that it can never be electrically powered . Diesel or hydrogen powered engines are needed to propel the machine either through Torque converters or electric motors powered by the engine. Dumpers have a capacity of up to 500 tonnes per load and bucket size for excavators is up to 50 tonnes. (Ten gob fulls to fill a dumper). Engine size required is typically between 2,000 and 5,000 Hp. Electric power is only feasible for Baby equipment according to Lord Bamford (JCB).
Very true horse one, but those kilns could be powered by renewables.Problem is, renewables are just not cheap enough yet.
But yes, fair one, one of their main exports is something that produces a shed load of pollution.
....good, I am glad you got it - the generator(s) is next door at Phulbari so the carbon footprint for transport / logistics will be minimal.
Add in a solar farm on site, electric dumpers & diggers, staff in well paid meaningful employment (not subsistence rice growing) and you start to see it all come together....
The problem on the horizon is her, Hasina. She got it wrong, but it was somebody else who made the mistake. Tucked up by the Indians - that was Nasrul at fault.... We still have a long way to go.