Firering Strategic Minerals: From explorer to producer. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Started: SilverSpoons, 16 Dec 2021 23:01
Last post: SilverSpoons, 16 Dec 2021 23:01
https://news.sky.com/story/sports-direct-tycoon-ashley-reignites-row-over-debenhams-collapse-12371048
especially given the effect on the pension fund
Started: KRSS, 21 Jun 2021 12:05
Last post: KRSS, 21 Jun 2021 12:05
Magasan de Nord sold for undisclosed price
Started: chilting, 15 May 2021 08:35
Last post: StockTricks, 17 May 2021 21:08
Just came here a year on to see if of these penny stockholders still whinging about getting their money back.
Law suit anyone ? What happened to that?
lol
Absolutely no sympathy for them. Mike Ashley offered them a considerably good takeover offer, thought to be in the region of £125m,which was rejected as being too low.
Well - When packing their cardboard boxs out of the office, i hope the Debenhams Board think the price is about right now, eh?
A once great name is no more - you will be missed just like Woolworths and C &A :)
Today marks the final trading day for Debenhams in the High Street.
With a history that dates back to London's West End in 1778 the company had 110 sites across the country by the 1950's and has been the mainstay of many High Streets throughout our lifetimes.
If lives on as an online marketing tool for Boohoo - the final insult to a once great company that simply lost its way and failed to reinvent itself.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57119489
Started: maidit308, 4 Dec 2020 18:19
Last post: KRSS, 17 Mar 2021 10:44
No yield for shareholders? Or shareholders don’t even exist
If boohoo are taking over the deb stock etc what happens to the shares?
Well well well! Told you pearls! Looks like you shat out after all this time! Said MA wouldn’t get his hands on debs and I was right! Sucka!!!
Looks like he’s getting very close to it as well. Reports coming out that he is close to clinching a deal which would value Debenhams at £200m and save 12,000 jobs
Not sure if it means anything to us (ex) shareholders but seems at least positive for the high street and for jobs.
Something must also be done about business rates.
many thanks for your thoughts PEARLS'''
It's always nice to have someone that's on the side of small shareholders posting here
that actually feel our pain, and our losses
what would we do without you..
yes and I'm sure MA will be on the case , and won't be taking £150m loss lying down,
and will surface at some point with a new offer of just £1 LOL!!!
he is not silly, been in the high street store game for years, and has seen them come and go
and has bought most of them when they are on there A-SS LOL!!
the meek shall inherit the earth they say'' never a truer word said,
we will see how it all plays out, in the weeks and months ahead, we have lot's of time..
regards
308..
Started: LondonInvestor, 25 Jan 2021 09:17
Last post: LondonInvestor, 25 Jan 2021 09:17
....*sighs* terrible board.
has been like a dog with a bone over Deb for years.....he wont let it go now, not after he was previously re-buffed. He will take the assets and stock in typical Mike Ashley style and yes surely now an amalgamation of HOF and Debenhams has to be on the cards. Deal announced before the weekend in my opinion....
Started: RachelsDad, 1 Dec 2020 09:19
Last post: devonplay, 4 Dec 2020 15:17
-if anything this puts the assets that once belonged to Debenhams PLC at an even further at distance.
As Celine's unsecured creditors might never have been creditors of Debenhams PLC. If the creditors do get paid out, or someone else takes on the debt and guarantees, there will be some of the Celine 1 shareholder who are still creditors and will also be in line, as I believe as part of the process of funding Celine 1 they converted some of their debt into equirty and other parts into senior secured debt, so they'll rank ahead of other secured and unsecured creditors.
Most basically, if Celine is no more, does that mean that creditors essentially have given up their rights to any proceeds?
- No, becuase they are still creditors. In this case some are secured and some unsecured.
The secured creditors will have the security of the assets belonging to Celine 1, the assets of the business trading as Debenhams.
Mike Ashley keep on referring to his 30% stake as if it is still a live shareholding?
- it may still be a holding in Debenhams PLC, but that company has not assets. So he's technically a DISSENTING shareholder, in the PLC buisness, not the owners of the company trading as Debenhams owned by Celline 1
Got it?
Dissenters are strictly shareholders who have a holding a business, who could expect a legitimate payment from the company, but they also more broadly shareholders who haven't accepted an action of a Board and are unwilling to surrender their shares or rights, once a company is dissolved their rights in absolute terms disappear and their only courseof action is via the courts - usually against the Directors.
We've been thought that, and as far I understand it, Debenhams PLC has been de-listed, struck off companies house and is being dissolved - if it already hasn't. Dissenters don't have to accpet any of that, but they have limited recourse.
No, it's very simple.
Debehmans PLC had creditors
Some of those creditors formed a SPV (special purpose vehicle ( a company)0 and excercised their rights to take over the assest of Debenhams. They became shareholders of Celine 1
Debenhams PLC basically dissolves.
Celine 1 has creditors.
- in many cases the same creditors.
Celine 1 gets into trouble, becomes insolvement and it's assest gets sold off to pay it's creditors.
THE CREDITOR WERE NOT SHAREHOLDER OF CELINE 1, so Celine 1 insolvency doesn't mean they give up their right.
Some of the creditors converted their debt to equity, but not all of them. I still own some of the Debenhams fixed income debt, that is now secure on Celine 1, but with was originally secure by Debenhams PLC.
- it may still be a holding in Debenhams PLC, but that company has not assets. So he's technically a DISSENTING shareholder, in the PLC buisness, not the owners of the company trading as Debenhams owned by Celline 1
Got it?
Devon, if Celine acquired the rights of the secured creditors, and DEB is now in liquidation, does that mean that Celine is in liquidation as well?
Why does the press and even Mike Ashley keep on referring to his 30% stake as if it is still a live shareholding?
Most basically, if Celine is no more, does that mean that creditors essentially have given up their rights to any proceeds?
Started: maidit308, 17 Aug 2020 16:04
Last post: DC2007, 1 Dec 2020 10:29
Valueless because those shares don't exist -- press spouting nonsense.
According to the press, Mike Ashley still owns 30% of DEB so presumably we still own our shareholdings? Is there any possibility he now can use his shareholding as a platform to make an on offer for DEB?
Or are his and our shares completely valueless?
Started: DC2007, 16 Aug 2020 23:26
Last post: DC2007, 16 Aug 2020 23:26
The management names might be different, but they are as deluded as ever. Announcing the appointment of a potential liquidator, they state at the same time they are "trading strongly"!
Sergio has found a decent new £700k job in German retail. The profile puff on the website says how he successfully steered Debenhams through a crucial restructuring. Unbelievable!
Started: ShareShareAlike, 24 Jun 2020 23:02
Last post: devonplay, 2 Jul 2020 09:34
Final Docuement is available now. Court case (Frazer Group) won't proceed if they didn't provide new evidence a week ago. I can't find anything suggesting they did, so it's very likely it's all over today.
Final Gazette dissolved following liquidation
(This document is being processed and will be available in 5 days.)
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05448421/filing-history
Dissolution date set for 02 July, I believe, after that day there can be no hope.
You never know, Big Mike may rescue everyone in the next few days! I'm sure he's working hard an behalf of the old Debenhams shareholders.....
Guys, just get over it. you will Never get your money back. Not even Big Mike is getting his,
So, stop whinning, put it down to experience, and move on.
Started: devonplay, 29 May 2020 17:30
Last post: DarrenRobinson, 5 Jun 2020 18:24
i don't think it is fair that my shares are gone, lost all my money, yet, Debenhams can still be on the high street like nothing has happened.
@Pearl This is a good example of what I mean;
Travelodge - https://www.travelodge.co.uk/sites/default/files/Project_Athena_CVA_Launch_Announcement.pdf
Travelodge CVA.
The important bit for holders of the senior unsecured floating debt;
"The CVA does not seek to compromise the claims of other creditors, including, without
limitation, secured creditors (including lenders under the Group’s revolving credit facility and holders of TVL
Finance plc’s senior secured floating rate notes due 2025)"
So you get to have a working approach to Admin/CVA's as, unlike shareholders, you often come out the otherside.
Stressed, but intact. At least for longer anyway.
Holders of AMC's debt, me included, are being offered a 50% haircut, but with enhanced yield and extended terms.
Shareholder provide first line of loss and risk capital (as Debenhams ) show ( I have no expectations of being paid in July by Debenhams, but there's still a chance).
I haven't checked, but I'm sure AMC's shareholder have suffered more , but without the benefit of the 12% yield and theoretical enhanced security.
Time will tell on AMC, Debenhams and Travelodge. But with all of them I've been happy to take a punt on their high yield debt, but wouldn't touch their equity with a barge pole. Beaten up, on deaths door, but still capable of offering income and capital in the future.
Devon, thanks for your comments - very useful.
I think few on these boards understand liquidation / dissolution / insolvency / bankruptcy that well so it is refreshing to read your comments.
"The judge said the appointment of any "provisional liquidator" was not urgent as there was no evidence to suggest that Debenhams' assets or documents needed to be secured because they were in any danger."
- it looks as if Frasers Group have tried to petition for a liquidation process as creditors...if that's the case, it won't have an impact on the shareholders of Debenhams PLC.
It just means the Fraser Group can pursue an agenda to have Debenhams (as owned by Celine) move to a liquidation footing and make it a target.
It's just a rehash of the case they lost early in the year with a new strategy. But, as times had passed, and the business has been impacted by covid, then it's an even less valuable vehicle.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-debenhams-negotiates-reopening-deal-but-hundreds-of-jobs-will-go-11996234
A less speculative piece.
"Debenhams says it has negotiated a deal with landlords allowing it to reopen most stores in June but admits some jobs will be lost as it grapples with administration."
-This is the protective Administartion the new owners of Debenhams applied for. I think the term they used was " admin lite" from memory.
Not the process of dissolution Debenhams PLC is in.
Started: Pearls, 28 May 2020 11:13
Last post: devonplay, 29 May 2020 17:21
" despite the commonly held view" it's not a "commonly held view" the company, Debenhams PLC, is in the hands of FTI Consulting (Administrator) and they have issued a AM23 "Notice of move from administration to dissolution".They've also said there's little chance of a payment to shareholders of Debenhams PLC.
Sports Direct aren't shareholders of Celine Group Holdings Limited, the present owners of the Debenhams stores.
I wouldn't get excited about it ~
Debenhams debt now trades at a YTM of 500%. That suggests the market put's little expecation of them surving. If they did collapse, holders of any senior secured or senior unsecured debt would be way ahead of the Shareholders of Debenhams PLC (that is heading towards dissolution) . Given that yield on the debt, it's gone way beyond "Junk", the market believe there's little chance of recovering any of the outstanding value/indentures. What equity value, if any, would be very little indeed. No one is going to turn the clock back and get re-instated at anywhere near the value the business left the listed market. Even if there was a tiny possibility of that happening.
There's always hope, but it has to be tempered with a dose of reality. Most likely SPD are still smarting at losing the court case and sense blood in the wate. You don't have to go far to see how stressed retail is at the moment.
From today's SKY News Report:
Businessman and Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley has failed in a bid to trigger an investigation into the financial affairs of struggling department store chain Debenhams.
Lawyers representing Mr Ashley's Frasers Group, which owns nearly a third of Debenhams' shares, asked a judge to appoint a "provisional liquidator" to begin inquiries.
But Judge Mark Mullen, who considered the application at a remote hearing in the specialist Insolvency and Companies Court on Wednesday, refused.
The judge said neither other Debenhams' shareholders nor creditors were aware of the application.
He indicated that he would reconsider the issue at another hearing in the near future, but said he wanted the application to be "known about".
Presumably there are assets worth fighting over despite the commonly held view that the company had collapsed amidst enormous debts? Seems a bit odd but if he gets any sort of return, so should other shareholders. Can anyone advise if there are still straws to clutch on this one?
Started: investors55, 17 May 2020 23:57
Last post: devonplay, 20 May 2020 18:55
My pleasure.
Thanks Devonplay, much appreciated. Cheers
Although the company isn't listed any longer it's still in existence (for the moment), but is in the process of Dissolution.
As per this notice from the Administrator (from 17 March);
https://www.fticonsulting-emea.com/~/media/Files/emea--files/creditors-portal/cip-emea-public/debenhams-plc/form-am23-notice-of-move-from-administration-to-dissolution-17-march-2020.pdf
So, it won't be in your account for ever. The process just takes time. Debenhams PLC still exist, isn't tradeable, but will be dissolved in the near future. It's very very unlikely there will be any different outcome. As it's still a legal entity, you are still a shareholder for the time being.
I had 250k worth of shares in deb b4 everything tits up! But to my surprise, my stockbroker still keep in my ISA stocks and shares account. The most surprising thing is that they are now transferring it in addition to my other shares into my IG ISA stocks and shares account. I don't understand that, can anyone please help
Cheers
Started: maidit308, 8 May 2020 10:35
Last post: maidit308, 8 May 2020 10:35
thanks for that link SILVER''
just goes to show what robbers they are, there fat friends bond holders with billions get 100% back
but suppliers and there small shareholders are ask to except nothing...
one of these days we will get justice, and they all get infected with COVID 19
and get taken out of society one by one for there crime... if nothing else...
308...
Started: SilverSpoons, 6 May 2020 22:25
Last post: SilverSpoons, 6 May 2020 22:25
Started: maidit308, 3 Apr 2020 19:22
Last post: devonplay, 18 Apr 2020 14:53
Debenhams strikes deals to rescue most stores
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52330268
"Admin lite" they've timed that well. Still on track to pay debt holders.
1.4 During the period the Joint Administrators have concluded matters that remained outstanding at the time of drafting the Company’s previous progress report, namely:
Recovering funds held by the Company’s share registrar in relation to unclaimed shareholder dividends into the Administration estate. Work undertaken withthe share registrar also included a large extraction of Company data from their records, whichis now held by the Company, with all data held by the shareregistrar having been destroyed.
All the best to everyone. Didn’t think I would be posting on this BB again.
"The Debenham's we had shares in is long gone"
Here's the Notice of move from administration to dissolution for the listed equity;
https://www.fticonsulting-emea.com/~/media/Files/emea--files/creditors-portal/cip-emea-public/debenhams-plc/form-am23-notice-of-move-from-administration-to-dissolution-17-march-2020.pdf
Started: maidit308, 9 Apr 2020 18:45
Last post: maidit308, 9 Apr 2020 18:45
all data held by the shareregistrar having been destroyed.
LOOOOOL!!!
they can run but they can't hide, god see and knows...
and we have all the time in the world...
IF COVID 19 don't get them first.... the past will...
Started: RachelsDad, 3 Apr 2020 18:14
Last post: RachelsDad, 3 Apr 2020 18:14
Big Mike ( Government to pay my staff) Ashley.... will get second bite at the cherry now!!
Never, never rule the bloke out of anything....especially if it involves Debenham's!
Started: devonplay, 29 Jan 2020 11:52
Last post: devonplay, 29 Jan 2020 11:52
We should throw whatever book we can against the Directors at this mess. Ordinary shareholders were treated disgracefully.
Time for big MA to lead the charge.
Probably too late to help us? "Directors of failed companies are more likely to be pursued personally when their creditors are left unduly out of pocket after a High Court ruling that experts have claimed “rewrites the rules of insolvency”. A judge held that directors’ duties survive a company’s collapse, meaning that they are on the hook if they acquire assets from failed companies below market value — via contentious prepack deals, for example. Stephen Hunt, a liquidator, successfully sued System Building Services, a fire protection business, and Brian Michie, its director, over the transfer of funds and the sale of a company property at an undervalue after it entered insolvency. Judge Sally Barber ruled that “the duties owed by a director to the company and its creditors survive” a company’s collapse. - The Times"
Started: devonplay, 15 Jan 2020 09:25
Last post: devonplay, 20 Jan 2020 09:57
Dr Beatrice Lafon appointed to parent company board
https://tools.eurolandir.com/tools/Pressreleases/GetPressRelease/?ID=3690371&lang=en-GB&companycode=uk-deb&v=
No trading update so far in January, but the income payment is seemingly being made on the debt.
I expect to have funds in the next few days.
Test
Started: devonplay, 10 Dec 2019 09:19
Last post: devonplay, 12 Dec 2019 17:18
It's looking like the interest payments on the bonds will come in January.
Bit of time to go, but it feels like it's going to happen.
....some miracle......
....some justice
LiL
Do peeps still believe we'll still be compensated? I only keep Debs in my browser in case a miracle of justice occurs !
https://tools.eurolandir.com/tools/Pressreleases/GetPressRelease/?ID=3677597&lang=en-GB&companycode=uk-deb&v=
Debenhams Group announces today that John Walden and Kevin Conroy have each been appointed as a non-executive director of Celine Jersey Topco Limited, the parent company of the Debenhams Group of operating companies.
Started: devonplay, 7 Nov 2019 11:22
Last post: devonplay, 7 Nov 2019 11:22
Started: devonplay, 9 Oct 2019 17:38
Last post: KNIGELK, 25 Oct 2019 12:07
Relates to the Irish business element - makes sense as it was always separate - FYI here is it:
Debenhams Group announces today that Mark Gifford is to be appointed as a director and Chairman of Celine Jersey Topco Limited, parent of the Debenhams group of operating companies. Mark has a wealth of experience in large scale turnarounds, bringing stability to retail businesses and delivering change and growth in the consumer sector. He is currently Chairman of Radley Group and a non-executive director of Ann Summers' parent GGI and of No. 9 Investments (the McCarthy family investment office). He was previously CFO of Game Digital from 2015 to 2018 and CFO of House of Fraser for eight years.
Stefaan Vansteenkiste, Debenhams' CEO, said:
"We are delighted that Mark will be joining the parent board to work with our investor consortium, who have confirmed their continuing commitment through providing additional liquidity for our peak trading. Mark's expertise and understanding of business change as well as the retail industry will be invaluable. I look forward to working with him as we deliver the turnaround of the group."
Mark Gifford, Chairman-Elect of Celine Jersey Topco Limited, commented:
"Debenhams is strongly backed by a supportive investor group with substantial resources and has an experienced management team with a clear plan to deliver a turnaround. I am excited about the opportunity to play a part in building a successful future for one of the UK's best-known retail businesses. We are assembling a strong group of Board members and I am looking forward to working with the team as we implement the necessary changes to deliver a sustainable and profitable future."
Just noticed a RNS this morning on a new BoD appointment - one of a series of appointments it seems in the works with the financial backing of the new "owners".. not sure how a RNS has been issued (maybe due to bondholders?) but a gentle reminder that this company continues to trade and that solutions were found to keep the company afloat - just that the old shareholders were never asked to assist financially... never mind... not the first time nor the last I suspect this happens
You can offset them against any tax on your gains. I hoped something could have been done by the courts to address the way the rug was pulled on shareholders after they gave MA 2 more weeks to come up with a better offer. This action caused many to rush to buy shares and is despicable and underhanded move, that IN LAW is called :- 'Taking a Pecuniary Advantage for Gain' ...and can carry a prison sentence of up to 10 yrs.
A rarely used law ie, 'Knowledge Aforethought' means much the same and is a criminal act if used to foreclose on shareholders if they mislead investors beforehand.
MA should have challenged on behalf of ALL shareholders, not just for his own interests. If i had the money i would have. The point in law was giving MA two weeks to make a better offer, then THE VERY NEXT DAY the lenders pulled the rug, misleading genuine investors in the process. IMO, they should have allowed MA those extra 2 weeks. They obviously did this to prevent MA from attempting to recover some of his 150m stake and to prevent him taking control?
"Are our shares lost?
Mine are still showing in my II account with no value, but show my book cost so makes my account look very bad! I dont know what to do with them"
You can't do anything with them, the company has been de-listed, you can only trade them on a private basis if you can find a buyer and come to some legal tansfer arrangement with them. You'd need a Solicitor to draw up a contract and pay the Administrator to amend the register.
Because the company, Debenhams PLC, is likely to be liquidated then it's unlikely anyone will want to buy them from you. All it's assests have been already sold. It's in Administration.
The company hasn't been "struck off" yet, so it's still a legal entity. Eventually HMRC will give it a NIL value status and you can use the loss to offset any capital gains (over the threshold ) you've made. Some will do that before the NIL value status has been granted.
You could ask the broker to remove the entry. They should remove them once the company has been dissolved and NIL value has been granted. They probably leave the entry available to assist you with claiming loss relief.
Are our shares lost?
Mine are still showing in my II account with no value, but show my book cost so makes my account look very bad! I dont know what to do with them