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Started: ianmat, 18 Jun 2024 16:25
Last post: Davde, 18 Jun 2024 20:08
Just looked at the last 12 months news on two main sites for vets (association and times) and cannot see any articles on corporate behaviour, possibly looking in wrong place! There was talk re regulatory change and this maybe the key to reducing prices in a sector where independents are the majority rather than corporates.
Just read all vet press on the CMA and you’ll quickly see vets are peed off with corporates and their behaviours. He was one of the few remaining vets in a corporate Board room. There are independent vets opening left, right and centre near us. It’s continuing the Dow turn of corporates they’ll be back but it’s decades away.
Doubt it he is a horse Vet and thst is a very small,part of CVS business.
Love to know the full story of resignation , might explain the last few days of trading .
Started: Darth_Trader, 23 May 2024 08:47
Last post: ethical, 10 Jun 2024 16:00
There are few things more monopolistic than food...the CMA should look at food quality and pricing! We all need to eat, supermarkets put pressure on farmers to reduce prices which lowers quality, meanwhile the price to consumer stays the same or goes up. very very few big companies control almost all the food.
OH always tells clients that they can get meds cheaper elsewhere - it costs for a prescription to be written out, but they are valid for 6 months.
Mind - she had a client who abused the system recently - who went with the prescription to several online suppliers and used the same prescription at all of them; this could actually come back on to the vet if there are issues
The market liked the PETS results, so we have benefited. If we work with the CMA and bring in the changes they want ,it might not affect earnings too much. What makes me laugh is ive just bought into Diageo they have over 200 brands. They have just bought a few small brands. You dont get the CMA telling Diageo to change their names to Diageo,
Seems to be a slow and steady increase back to value, which is nice
The report should not stop the growth. I know we have got the "green light" from the CMA to purchase companies since the investigation was started. I liked the RNS from our management and the way they are cooperating with CMA. The big worry is how the new regulations will effect forward earnings.
Started: ianmat, 30 May 2024 16:54
Last post: ianmat, 30 May 2024 16:54
Going along very nicely, soon it will be tipped. halving the share price due to cma seems crazy. still got 18 months to report will buy again on any weakness.
Started: HumpyDumpy, 21 May 2024 16:23
Last post: wookieemonster, 21 May 2024 18:16
It’s quite significant in the grand scene of things isn’t it, well not quite spectacular but certainly to the point that this will both increase cash flow and also mean further optimising the sectors that are profitable and working.
Making the decision to cut the dead weight and fine tune the business, to me, seems very positive and shows the drive to increase value.
Though the downside being, this part of the business was a failure. However, in terms of moving forward from this sp and this moment. It should equate to a positive In the long term.
Interesting disposal terms. Of no consequence in the grand scheme of things, but nice to know CVS look after their chums.
Last post: Ivyspivey, 16 May 2024 20:18
The vet business is still bouyant as evidenced by the 20 Practices I have visited this week and the corporates are still interested in buying the right practices.
Good to have broken the 1000p area and very large UT looks good to me.
ATB
Started: ianmat, 15 May 2024 15:21
Last post: ianmat, 16 May 2024 16:19
I suppose everyone has a view , the charts i think have had their final dip but i could well be wrong. to me this whole stock market is a form of gambling but hopefully when you lose its not your whole stake. so if it was a football match i think its odds on for a win or draw. when i go for a walk in the morning everyone has dogs so the overbreeding doesnt alter the population numbers. cvs is one of the better corporate groups and the CMA has provided buying opportunity. thats my take on it , only time will tell.
Good luck with your investment elswhere blablabla1,you've looked at cvsg, it's not for you, but it is a buy for others. We all have various takes and views on stocks, it 's what makes a market.
Just came across this business in my screener, interesting business and can see why it looks undervalued based on DCF .
Technically the charts/macd looks to me that it can drop in a final wave before stabilising. The tailwind in vetland from covid are over, breeders even have a hard time to sell puppies this year. Buying clinics is expensive as independent vets know how to max sell their business, have seen this myself. Result is often forced cross selling of expensive treatments to earn back the investments in the clinic resulting in loyal customers being irritated, do not like the balance sheet from them at this moment. So the expected lower growth, relatively high debt compared to income and high goodwill/intangibles and the CMA make me wait and put this on the watchlist. Always interested to hear why I am wrong in my initial thinking.
Yep, ever since I typed that it cant breakthrough the 10.00 'electric fence' it has gone over (shows what I know!!!)
Looking as if the barrier of 10.00 might be brocken . still cant understand why so cheap , notwithstanding the CMA.
Started: razzledaz, 10 May 2024 11:16
Last post: steviewonder77, 13 May 2024 14:56
Razz/of course its trading in a range, 940-1000p,,Its going nowhere until the CMA report comes out.
Steviewonder77/ I get what you are saying but this just looks like its just being traded in a range. The market is a 'game' lots of the time and fundamentals go out the window!
Hope you are very successful with your open goal steview. I am deep enough ,in , with CVS dare not risk even an open goal !
Iron/the market,like us,are waiting for the CMA decision. The world and his dog knows this is 50% undervalued. Ive filled my boots with this in the last few weeks. Its an open goal.
The CMA have reduced the sp by50%. Despite this, the recent upward move in valuation of the Aim stocks that are solid companies has not seen any improvement at CVS. Seems the market views this company as being only fair value below £10.
Started: Steve077, 25 Apr 2024 11:22
Last post: Ivyspivey, 6 May 2024 15:55
The CMA does have an issue with the vertical integration of some of these Corporate businesses and the cautious welcome by the RCVS to the proposals tells me a Market investigation will proceed.
However concepts like the Healthy Pet Club are endorsed by the CMA and are applicable by bith I deoendent and corporate vets alike.
CVS are in a good position as their Crematoria business is a very small bit of operation and their referral sites are not in monopolistic situations
Dram/your right, also how it will affect our business model ,will they stump our growth. At the end of the day ,its all about earnings going forward. Whats good for our customers ,will be good for us
IMHO I suspect the CMA perceives a problem with the CVS Group companies restricting competition because of its one-stop-shop structure - involved in diagnostic labs, pet medicines, pet insurance, "healthy pet club", crematoria, etc. Staff are reported to be under pressure to sell these add-ons ( especially additional diagnostic tests, food supplements and insurance) and clients are not advised about or offered any alternatives to the Group's products or services . I suspect CVS will have to rein-in this approach and then the big question will be how much profit will be affected.
The CMA will have to come up with some recommendations to not look like bigger idiots than they already do, but it won't be anything that changes the fundamental metrics of CVSG. It's a great company, currently seriously under valued.
At these levels it's a great investment as long as you can sit tight for 2 to 3 years. Unfortunately not too many RIs can do that.
Indeed, the drop from 2000p+ is simply on a potential 2 year enquiry to pricing and transparency of pricing, nothing material has changed.
CVSG does not generate excessive profits/margins (like banks/insurance and others do) and for those who understand the industry as stated in previous posts there is a shortage of vets and the cost of products/medicine etc is not cheap and I saw one comparison in the media that stated the equivalent/similar products for humans can often be bought cheaper than those precribed by vets, totally omitting the fact that the law prevents this practice !
Fair enough the CMA take a look at the industry, however, as many have suggested, vets included, they will find the cost of vets, training, premises, insurance are l supported by current charging and practices with a likely recommendation for displayed standard pricing where possible. Vets and pets is an expensive business, the shares for the business are currently far from expensive though :-)
Started: steviewonder77, 3 May 2024 14:46
Last post: steviewonder77, 3 May 2024 14:46
Deutsche Bank, "Buy" target 1400p.
Started: Monkfish6, 15 Apr 2024 17:08
Last post: Kettle, 24 Apr 2024 18:41
It is so unfair what CMA have done without any evidence that stands CVS out from other Companies. Surely BOD need to show some Balls and stick this back at them? What have they done differently? In fact i think CVS are better priced!
There will be no news for many months as the pen pushing CMA parasites talk among themselves but basically doing nothing. How these grubby clowns came to land at CVS door is a mystery, as is why our Politicians allow such con artists to be funded by the Tax payer is a mystery.
Funny day’s price action today. Up all day then decent drop in the last hour and a half. I wonder if there might be news tomorrow
Started: steviewonder77, 11 Apr 2024 18:48
Last post: steviewonder77, 12 Apr 2024 10:34
Ivy/young,thanks,i didnt spot that. i wondered why the SP went up this morning. Im getting sloppy in my old age
Exactly. 28th March. Fair few days ago.
From 28 th March
A load,after hours.
Started: Wallywoo, 11 Apr 2024 13:56
Last post: Ivyspivey, 11 Apr 2024 18:09
Not sure Buchanan where you are from and if you know but Buchanan s in Manchester along with Tony Regan and Michael Gourlays were the 3 big group Practices CVS bought a long while ago before they added Petmedics.
All Vets should say you can get meds elsewhere - they will charge for a prescription but that lasts a few months. OH (not @CVSG) always tells clients this
Didn’t the consultation period close today? Would there not be an announcement today?
This will be back over 1000p soon. Just made an animed order for cats flea and worming spot on treatment. Nearly always cheaper than elsewhere. How can CSV be the best value but still ripping off customers? I think this will settle around 1100 to 1300, still uncertainty but shares are too cheap down here imo.
Started: Ivyspivey, 10 Apr 2024 19:49
Last post: steviewonder77, 11 Apr 2024 13:20
Shear/,they have already made their mind up ,whatever that may be. As for internal meetings and procrastinations, they are probably taking their dog for a walk in the park. As they all work(dont make me laugh) from home.
@steviewonder, 2 days to decide whether or not they do a full market investigation, with all that would entail? Surely you can't be serious? This is a public body, any decision will likely require dozens of internal meetings & procrastination
They closed the initial consultation in November and didn’t report until March. I doubt they’ll be rushing out their final verdict. The tone of the initial release is very negative and it’s absolutely clear they want to do a full investigation and try to flex their regulatory muscle. Unfortunately, it’s also clear that the CMA has a very poor understanding of the sector. The report is all about justification of their chosen course. I find it quite frankly utterly bizarre that the CMA have decided to target the veterinary sector given their complete absence of interest in changes to optometrist and dental services in the UK or of course fuel stations and supermarkets in general. Let us not forget that their staggering action against petrol stations was price comparison websites only even after disclosing years long price fixing!
There is also no acknowledgement in the report that the consumer respondents are likely to be disproportionately dissatisfied clients so most of this feedback was always going to be very negative. Any attempts by the CMA to set pricing beyond prescription fees will be farcical as practices will simply increase other fees to make up losses and consider reducing provision - this has already been seen with European travel certification. Ultimately, what is to stop consult fees rocketing even further to compare to private doctor fees? The CMA need to be very careful or they’ll inadvertently hurt consumers. As has been stated before on here the margins of the corporate groups are not eye watering so I think they will face stiff resistance to anything punitive.
Shear/yeah,take 2 months and leave companies in limbo. It should be 2 days maximum.
5.9
"Following careful consideration of the responses to this consultation, we will publish a final decision on whether or not to make an MIR in respect of the supply of veterinary services for household pets in the UK."
If the consultation closes today, surely 'careful consideration' means a month or two?
Started: BrilloBoy, 8 Apr 2024 10:00
Last post: Ivyspivey, 10 Apr 2024 16:37
I was referring to communication tomorrow.
Do think they will investigate further and that full report could take 12 months or more but I am looking at the detail of what areas they want to look at closer.
I can then judge how it will affect the industry and especially the individual corporate groups like CVS.
When will the CMA report be released though? The consultation closes tomorrow, but that doesn't mean they will be publishing their decision on how to proceed any time soon...
Morning yes the CMA report should be revealing.
The general thrust is very predictable but the fine detail is the important bit and how the corporates respond.
I've joined in with 752 @ 930p... & let's see what happens next once the CMA reports.
Monk/ive been buying this daily ,today i paid 933p. I have my position now ,so i shall wait for the report. This isnt being shorted ,so theres no selling pressure .None of the big institutions have been selling The world and his dog knows this is dirt cheap. So its all now down to the report.
Started: Monkfish6, 2 Apr 2024 17:43
Last post: steviewonder77, 7 Apr 2024 12:51
Iron/ive been doing this a long time. Ive come unstuck a few times but they pale insignificance with my winners. Thursday is a big day,i should have my position by then. Then if it goes up,its a long term hold. If it gets beaten up,i will end up with a bigger position. GLA
Loved your final comment, stevie.Keep buying and how you make "akilling".
Iron/i agree. Im not too worried ,what ever effects us will effect our competitors to some degree. In the long run it might be beneficial for us. As for the SP ,it will depend on earnings ,if the earnings are ok the SP will rise. I would like to thank the CMA because they have given me the opportunity to buy this cheap
The CMA are a bunch of weak pathetic pen pushers. They see an easy target in CVS. BIG price control companies they would not dare challenge. Like all government funded scroungers they move VERY slowly so it will be many months before they go away. So the sp we can expect will show little movement for many months , i fear.
Joo/ i hope your right. How did you come to that conclusion ,was it in a dream?
Last post: Ivyspivey, 29 Mar 2024 15:28
Hi All,
Some good comments and in general agreement.Will look at next CMA response and judge accordingly.
Fortunately I know this space like the back of my hand so confident I can predict the impact of any investigative action even if not the timeline.
Enjoy rest of w/ end
Monk/im 50/50 on whether we will see a drop in the SP after the report,it could go either way,but it doesnt matter because it will come back to £20, in the short/medium time. Opportunities to buy quality companies at cheap prices are few and far between . I also heard the interview on Radio 4 by the CMA representative. I thought she was "playing to the gallery".
Monkfish I'm not sure it will necessarily drop more. I mean it's already had 2 significant drops. Market pricing in the worse.
Let's hope the measures announced and enquiry are not so majorly punitive . The announcement after April 11th would have an investigation period of 18 months so a long period to go through. But with the company making more acquisitions in Australia will hope to offset some of it?
Totally agree. I suspect this will drop more on the next CMA announcement. Business impact as most of us agree will be limited in reality but that doesn’t seem to matter at the minute. It’s pretty damming that the CMA have decided to flex their muscle in the veterinary sector yet the limit of its action on the fuel stations monopolised by supermarkets was to suggest a price comparison website in spite of concluding long term price fixing. In a Radio 4 interview the CMA representative went to lengths to emphasise their powers to act on unfair pricing by directly setting prices. Shame this approach wasn’t taken on the supermarkets! I just hope they aren’t too cavalier in their next announcement because ultimately I don’t think they’ll do much at all other than limit prescription fees and possible drug mark up and suggest practices publish prices on a website. If drug markup is limited, this loss of revenue will be recouped via higher service fees and the CMA can’t justifiably interfere with these. As others have mentioned, the profit margin here is not excessive by any means so they can’t use that as a stick.
Clients need to get used to appropriately higher fees and the fact veterinary practices are private businesses. There is no NHS for pets.
Ivy/totally agree.the SP is in limbo until the report comes out. I have been buying this week and probably will next week. Its just too tempting at these prices. If it goes down on the report i will"back up the truck".
Started: Monkfish6, 25 Mar 2024 09:38
Last post: Ivyspivey, 28 Mar 2024 11:12
Many corporate groups allow varying degrees of clinical freedom and CVS are one of most restrictive and have a lot of white label products but they could argue that helps keeep prices competitive.
No worries,
It is not CVS way to respond in same way but they have along with couple of other corporate groups made approaches to CMA about a more limited half way house investigation but not sure if that will work.
You have to look at individual corporate models and how any possible wider investigation may impact the different groups and the fact the SP here has fallen so much.
So the underlying business here is still robust and they did make most of there U.K. purchases a long while ago so less likely to be in a monopolistic situation locally and plus they have been very careful with U.K. purchase since as well as establish new Practices like Southport.
They can easily change their local names and they also have ANIMED so an on line presence plus Vet buying group as well as related business.
So yes they have a big exposure to Vet market but as I said SP has halved and I believe the CMA will leave them relatively unscathed so imo this will bounce back nicely in time.
Thanks Ivyspivey, for your comments. Perhaps a more robust response from CVS should have happened. We agree the drop is overdone. Wish i had spare cash to buy in at these silly low valuations.
Better day today.
PAH are much less exposed to the specific Vet sector than CVS and also they issued a more robust response based on their specific model.
However still believe this drop is well overdone
CMA interest does not seem to "bother" Pets at Home. It seems only CVS are suspected of dodgy behaviour towards pet owners !!!!
Last post: Garydav2, 27 Mar 2024 16:14
A little more life in it today. Let's hope that we don't see below 1000 soon. And we begin to get nearer a more sensible valuation. Fall here has been overdone ....
Can anyone explain why the sp has halved and remains there. This after several months following the CMA initial intervention. There might be some logic if this company had been making big profits or even paying a good dividend. Neither was the case and the sp when close to £20 hardly made CVs look a good investment.
Last post: Ivyspivey, 21 Mar 2024 20:22
Just got back from BSAVA and as usual busy during breaks but quiet during ie tires.
Not much talk about CMA report and industry just carries in as normal.According to Vet Times CVS are the only named corporate group to have approached the CMA about suggesting an intermediate framework rather than a full investigation.
Much better day today.
Last post: Garydav2, 21 Mar 2024 16:24
Much better day today. Hope as Monkfish has said a bottom has been hit. As I posted earlier in week the SP has dropped over 740 pence so a little bounce is due. This was 1500 to 1600 range . Personally see a recovery and price settling around 1200 to 1300 . GLA
Started: Monkfish6, 21 Mar 2024 08:59
Last post: Monkfish6, 21 Mar 2024 08:59
So, after drifting lower the past few days is today the day we hit a bottom. Press coverage finally ending for now. Hopefully, a bit of sense will return to this market and we’ll see a step up. Or will it keep sliding. Worrying if it does as I’m sure whatever the CMA say about the full investigation there’ll be another drop on that announcement. Funny times for this one. Long term it’ll recover though.
Last post: Garydav2, 19 Mar 2024 16:51
Good luck Teddy. Me too bought some more mid afternoon.
I bought another tranch 5 minutes ago, carrying a lot of these at the mo, I have no concerns with this share. If it is not 1200p by the time I am eating my choccy eggs I will be disappointed.
Don't think they can as it's a Closed Period
The board should be showing support by buying at this price if they think it is cheap. Try and garner some confidence. At the minute it's a sinking ship without a captain.
Can't believe this is down 729 points in a month.
Like a major profit warning ⚠️.
Overdone? Time will tell I suppose
Last post: Garydav2, 19 Mar 2024 09:37
Anyone who got in here early this morning will do well I think.
Started: Monkfish6, 19 Mar 2024 09:14
Last post: Monkfish6, 19 Mar 2024 09:14
Still no significant buy pressure here below £10.
Are the CMA releasing their plans at the start of April or is there going to be a delay before they release the full details of their investigation. They state they are having a month long consultation with the sector but it’s not clear to me if they are then going to announce the scope of their investigation or will there be a long wait before such an Announcement?