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Robo...... GL with your other investments Hope you recover from your losses very quickly
Macrock59 - recommend occasional google search of following keywords 'CFO / resigns / resignations' and variants of every month to give advance warnings of problems ahead. CFO of CONviviality resigned Oct17. I missed it but it's good warning sign for this type of complete business failure.
First, I'm no guru, an observer of businesses. If my post somehow offended you I totally APOLOGISE to you. As for wild assumptions, let's direct that anger towards the financial media, but you are missing the point. That point is how do you know the financial media are falsely printing imaginary figures out of thin air? You got to prove that to readers in the forum. The point here is we both don't have proof, but we emotionally respond to the Telegraph article differently. One of us decided to post it, the other thinks The Telegraph is a crap publisher (I'm assuming) and totally not credible. If The Telegraph has a history of publishing misleading stories you need to share some examples, so others can learn.
Fund managers don't invest their own money but clients money. For example, a �10bn fund with �100m invested in Conviviality would see a loss of 1%! As long as these managers make money from other investments they are cool. Also, fund managers will get a performance fee. For example, if they make 20% from �10bn this is �2bn and let say they take 15% performance fee that's �300m! For a group of 30 people, it equates to a lot of money. For retail investors, it's a different story.
You can claim today year 2017-2018 capital loss as 0 value? So if you lost �1000 then your capital loss is �1000. If action group is formed I will be joining them better than just throw away the towel and doing nothing. Few thousands just stolen from me by Aim crooks fraudulent scumbags.
Agree 100% . Only been on board with this shambles recently - but have lost lots too ! I am trying not to beat myself up as bought on signals that you would expect to be right - but we simply have been conned ! As for the Fund Managers - Old Mutual got half out apparently but many more have taken a big hit - and have appeared to say sweet FA ! How come ? From what I saw there was no large volume sales before suspension and indeed some were buying in �150K+ on the day of suspension . When you are lied to you can only learn from it - but it is a scandal that the FCA et al have allowed this to happen . As for Fund Managers , I guess truth is it is not their money . Unlike us !
�150,000 quid mate bought 3 trances 101p/102p/103p. I was gonna take it all out at 115p but thought we good directors buying,,sadly rue day but I rebuilt my portfolio,put some plans in action,bought into some usa funds tech and dow ect,ftse 100/250 and allshare funds,all boring but between 6-10% annum yeah I no mate ,so I rebought ftse100 stocks back after selling lot 2 weeks odd back,so I was hoping to retire at 2020 I just reset that to 2022 now,i still have boohoo it will be my last investment in AIM,i knew the risks and lost, but sadly CVR are crooked and we have had this stolen from us share holders again,bad as it be,theres nobody intrested,im on the idea only bottom feeding mugs got burnt me included,as theres hardly any body posting and 110 million was owned by the fund managers,why are they not kicking up a storm I wanna no grrrrr,
How much did you get burned by Rob?
Orange tree, irrelevant now as this is done and dusted, however my exact point was that you have no quantifiable facts but expressed your opinion as if that was the case. All we know is that the lending group have maintained a debt facility of �102m (term, revolving, invoice discounting - who knows?) and that C&C have agreed to pay this off over the next 12 months. We have absolutely no idea how much C&C and AB InBev have additionally paid to resolve additional debt over and above the �102m (potentially up to another �30 - �60m), who picked up the cash, where the tax bill resides or how much extra was stumped up to cover overdue trade payables. We further have absolutely no idea how much net debt remained with conviviality plc, albeit on the basis it has gone into administration today we can assume it can't be small else such a move would make no sense. My point is that for someone who clearly likes to style themselves as a guru, you clearly should not be making wild assumptions based on newspapers and claiming they are facts. I do however agree with you that the management are clearly bent and am truly disappointed that we have received no announcement of an SFO, FCA investigation into how this unravelled, given, according to C&C, state of the art systems available to the management.
THIS WAS PLANNED BY THE SCUMMMY BASTURDS AT CVR,LETS SEE WERE THEY ALL END UP WITH GOOD JOBS,YOU GOT TO LAUGH AT THE DAYLIGHT ROBBERY AND THERES FK ALL WE CAN DO,OK ITS NOW OVER WE WILL BE KICKED OFF AIM NEXT MONTH...DEAR ME...
nothing short of being mugged...
CharlieR, Based on the Telegraph, the net debt was �180m, but based on the crooked management they say net debt is �150m. C&C Group says they will take control by paying off �102m of debt to the banks. As far as I'm aware HMRC isn't a banking group, although we need more information. Maybe the Telegraph includes the tax bill along with the net debt, that would be incompetent. Or, the journalist knows the real net debt of Conviviality. We will never know! However, the last few weeks show us that with each RNS release things were getting worse and worse! The same is happening to Carillion.
That�s that then folks. Finished.
The institutions probably got out mate,once it dropped to �1 it rose to �118p then, that's when they offloaded imv,they had chance to take a hit and get out,sadly we should all have got out ,its been so craftily done its beyond me,the speed the underhand,pwc are involved they pushed the sale its there job to get debt settled there debt collectors in disguise,we investors shelled out 260mn for mc and bib and got a quid back we had no say,and BEST BIT IS WE GOT NOBODY IN OUR CORNER TO FIGHT FOR US,I BELIEVED ONCE A DIRECTORS JOB WAS TO PROTECT THE INTRESTS OF THE SHAREHOLDERS AND INVESTORS ...HMMMMMM WE WAS ROBBED BLIND MC and BIB should have sold for more than �1 plus the 102mn debt,over nxt 10 yrs mc will create millions in profits no wonder there chin chin on champers
Can't believe they have just accepted this scandalous turn of events ! What chance have we as PIs if the institutions simply roll over and take it !!
This is an important investment lesson, especially those people who got screwed by the management. Never again, do you want to invest and see it go down the toilet! To learn from any investment mistake, you need to revisit Conviviality. I did the same thing and spotted 11 red flags BEFORE management issued their first profits warning. One red flag dealt is falling operating cash flow. That fell from �7.3m to �528k, a big signal that profits aren�t translated into cash flow. Another minor sign is the 10% decline in reported profit. Both these data signalled it would be nearly impossible for the company to achieve 14% growth in adjusted EBITDA, especially if its on a PE multiple of 30 times. Overall, I concluded a company like Conviviality would sell off at the first sign of trouble because it was being hyped to the hilt! Any decline in earnings and cash flow would be the key signal to sell. If you want to learn from your experience of Conviviality (scroll down to the article) or if you are interested in the other 10 red flags, then click http://bit.ly/2q6WlEy
Some small crumb of hope following the C&C deal. Impossible to make sense of the whole picture with limited & unreliable information to hand but not impossible that a drastically slimmed down & refinanced business may return to market at some point. We would, of course, be talking pennies, not pounds.
Irish drinks company C&C has bought the wholesale business of Conviviality, after the ailing alcoholic drinks retailer and supplier appointed administrators yesterday. Following �advanced discussions� with Conviviality, which owns brands such as Wine Rack and Bargain Booze, C&C said in a statement it had agreed to buy Conviviality brands Matthew Clark, Bibendum, Catalyst, Peppermint, Elastic and Walker & Wodehouse for a nominal sum. C&C brands include Magners cider and Tennent�s lager. The deal, which C&C said was backed by a major customer � global drinks group AB InBev � confers control of the UK�s largest independent trade distributor in the sector and Conviviality�s most valuable assets. The retail business, including off-licence chain Bargain Booze, is still up for sale. With its retail business unsold, Conviviality is �not out of the woods yet,� said Michael Mulligan, partner and insolvency specialist at law firm Shakespeare Martineau. �Conviviality�s retail operations, Bargain Booze and Wine Rack, may not be attractive propositions for buyers. Consumer spending is dropping and high-street retailers are coming under increasing pressure from restrictive rents and rates.� Conviviality announced last week that it planned to call in administrators to start an insolvency process after two profit warnings in a week, an unexpected �30m tax bill and having failed to raise �125m from investors to resolve a cash crisis. Diana Hunter stepped down as chief executive on March 19. Matthew Clark and Bibendum together supply more than 23,000 hotels, pubs and restaurants across the UK, and C&C now owns 100 per cent of the issued share capital of Matthew Clark Bibendum. It is unclear how many of the 2,600 Conviviality jobs will be saved. However, about 2,000 of these are in the wholesale business. C&C said it plans to provide funds to meet the cash needs of the business, and that AB InBev would contribute additional financial support. The sale comes less than three years after Conviviality bought Matthew Clark for �200m and wine merchant Bibendum for �60m.
As per the accounts for Apr 17 the old Conviviality Retail position was disclosed for clarification purposes as at Apr 15 pre MC - and then at Apr 16 so that the subsequent borrowings relating to MC and then Bib could be seen. IIs provided the bulk of the MC purchase - �130 placing - with �80m borrowing. Further placing for Bib plus borrowing resulted in c �120ml debt - which C & C have taken over. That is all I know. My comment was that CVR pre MC etc were on a good track (net assets �53m). Have no idea what any newspaper suggests and until accounts are prepared for Apr 18 - who knows
If anyone can make sense out of Convivialty's accounts,good luck to them. I guess the Telegraph fig of �180m comes from the net debt fig from the 8th march rns of �150m then the �30m tax bill they found down the sofa on the 14th March To think back on the 28th of Jan 2018 they said it was a "going concern",lol
Orangetree Care to qualify with facts your statement below, and please tell me that it wasn't from the Telegraph article, which was a work of fiction. "As for Conviviality, it is still responsible for �78m of debt.......And it still owes HMRC �30m. Make that �108m in liabilities." Don't get me wrong what has happened here is a disgrace and as things currently stand I don't see investors getting anything out of the retail business, just as they haven't out of the direct business, however, unless you can back up your statement with hard facts then please consider the value of posting anything at all. While the board of this business is clearly capable of the most incompetent of decisions, there is no logic to suggest why any net debt, or a tax bill, that is likely to be linked to stock coming out of bonded warehouses, should be remaining and attributed to the retail business. As such please qualify your statements. I am genuinely fascinated.
Should read 15 not 16 - pre MC. sorry
there was value there ,cvr played a dirty game ,filthy,scum,it was a game they played ,under hand ,stole shareholder money .125 M is peanuts ,there are companies with billions in debt....a 1.2 billion revenue co goes under cos of 125 M ,no way,no way.....there has been a cover up to say the least
Msuk trouble is mate therss only me you and hasiba intrested in this,rest are silent to be honest mate what else can we do.too late sale gone thru and a fkin bargain and they can pay it back ie 8.7mn a month thats peanuts 27000 resturants and bars jeeze how come nobody would lend us 125 mn over 12 months .i just dunno what say anymore cvr are doing nothing to help us at all rns to say in words fk you investors .you no what they should have forcex the debtors to take a hit if they owed 1mn heres 750000 other 250000 s for investors ect nope PWC SHAFTED US ASWELL Im emailing fca but nothing will come of it.the board will no doubt be getting jobs with c &c pwc enforced a admin for sale to go thru otherwise im sure it would have needed shareholder vote.sly bast uds hey.one thi gs 100% fact they intend to give or get us anything back yet pi s was used to fund raise to buy both matthew and bibendum and in return the board sh it on us wiped there arsez thru shi t paper at us and walked of to wash there filthy hands.
As at April 16 net assets on the balance sheet were �53m. C & C have taken on the debts relating to the acquisitions and promised full payment to all suppliers. C Retail had no borrowings at April 16. C Retail was profitable. So whose going to buy? There has to be some value here or have I got it wrong?