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Hello Dragon9, not necessarily a single negative thought, but when the same people appear on this bb on a frequent basis and constantly spew out the same negative and pessimistic outlook, their supposed ‘investment’ causes some questions to arise.
I really would like to stress that looking at the other side of the coin isn’t a bad thing, in fact, it forms a rational and logical opinion of one’s investment. However as others have pointed out, there is a difference between a fair evaluation and straight up deramping. We have had many many occurrences in this bb where people have brought up concerns regarding the business and they have been addressed appropriately and fairly with a wide range of genuine opinions and views, and it has been received positively by the community in most instances (for example, we had someone today come and ask if we can see 180p and imo his thread was met with fantastic views and opinions of many others here) but when the same small grouping of people come here recurrently and always deliver the same negative outlook, you can’t really have a balanced conversation with them. You address their concerns, and then they bring another problem into the picture, and then another, and then another…
Let me be very clear, yes the 10bn in liabilities is a problem, yes covid is still around, yes cineplex is still ongoing, but have you ever seen me jump to reply to other people’s posts with the same problems nearly every single day? The extent to which some go to bring negativity sometimes astounds me, literally in a trading session when we were up 7% intraday we had people saying it was nothing at all in the middle of the day. If you think it’s insignificant then why are you spending your time to go out of your way and come on here to type up a post about it? It is evidently clear to see that the chronic derampers here aren’t doing it in the name of being ‘balanced’ but rather to intentionally diminish the optimism we have as a grouping of shareholders.
Ahhhh smalltrader we seem to be engaging again!!!! You needn't bother in future , I will take a few mins to respond to you , after all you have took it upon yourself to defend the club.
Firstly being called a bully is laughable, all I did was question why people were celebrating a rise to 70p , most of these people that were celebrating are STILL in the red , my point which was also ECHOED BY LPD was it was to early to celebrate. Yet I get questioned he gets thanks
Because I said something the club didn't like posts were put out about negative sentiment and silly anolgys and I still stand by my point its NOT a time to celebrate a rise to 70p. I have every right to respond to those claims.
Your also a fine one to be talking on investments in cine , you harp on all day about holding shares the future of cine etc etc but your another one who didn't believe in your own hype , you SOLD at a LOSS I might add last year by your own admission , either you didn't believe in the future of cineworld , or you didn't do your own research , you have now brought back in and are still at a loss and I'm amazed that although your a club member you defend this celebration of s.p , so are you a day trader or a investor as you can't be both.
With regards to a previous comment I made and responded too I don't feel its necessary to send you my work schedule and locations, if I say I was there its because I was there.
If you want to start history lessons we could bring up plenty of your previous remarks , my fav one was 1.50 by end of September.
Your all good at predicting the future yet none of you predicted the drop from march highs. Drops its m.ms playing games , rises its because of a film.
Now the majority of you are wanna be lawyers , thankfully there are one or 2 that give a good account of the days proceedings, something I'm grateful for
Looks like Bonkers did not get the memo that PrettyWild sent earlier
Who exactly are you to be commenting on people’s use of their money? I can tell you that there will be people who played this share perfectly and bought at 15p and sold at 124p on the dot. Others may have bought at 180p just a week before the pandemic started and here they are. Everyone’s situation is different.
Yes, smalltrader may have sold at a loss, but it is his/her money and his/her choice. One may be less risk-tolerant and may sell at a heavy loss with the hopes of buying in later, for example. Selling doesn’t instantly indicate that you’re not an investor, many may need to pull that money out for personal use or they may exit their position with the intention of re-entering later.
Where the problem starts is when you come onto a bb and start pushing consistently negative outlooks on a frequent basis. If you want to buy up all the remaining float of CINE, or if you want to short the entire float, that is your money and your choice, but if you come onto a bb with a positive outlook for a company and then push a contrasting narrative you can’t expect everyone is going to agree with you.
To clear your point regarding lpd agreeing with you, I would like to direct your attention to the fact that he only said it ONCE in ONE post (from what I remember seeing). lpd did not come here on only the green days and then say ‘why are you all celebrating, it’s barely anything’. From when I learned how to invest, a 7% rise is a great thing and is quite uncommon…
Lastly, if someone is predicting 150p by September, what is the problem with that? Are we no longer allowed to make a prediction? I predict an open on Monday where CINE reaches the same market cap as Apple, where is the problem with that? Indeed, they may seem outrageous to you, but everyone is entitled to make a prediction if they want.
To finish, you say that the rise to over 70p is barely any progress. So if we look at the big picture (as you like to do), what do you think about CINE’s circa 370% gain since the 15p sp? Is that also negligible progress? According to your submission that 70p is nothing to be happy about yet, it is negligible progress in your eyes, correct?
Geeeez mountainous let me make this very clear for you to understand,
If cineworld rose to say 1.10 after everything that's happened last few months I would be celebrating with you.
If cineworld dropped on Monday to say 50p for no apparent reason I would be feeling the pain alongside you.
I simply put that after everything that's happened reading all the celebration comments was a bit premature and made for uncomfortable reading for a s.p rise to 70p.
That does NOT make me negative , I'm demanding the s.p be higher , I'm saying it should be higher, and am saying celebrations should be on ice.
That's all I put in a thread and YOU choose to take it upon yourself to moan at these posters for bringing negative sentiment and ruining the day on that rise.
I simply responded to you period and am amazed we are still talking about me not happy with a 70p rise.
Your other points are baiting for a argument , your feeding egos in the club by defending other egos. And if you take time to read each others posts at times it becomes very hypercritical.
I too was happy the share price rose a bit this week. I have held for over a year at 67p average.
I also found it a bit premature to be celebrating like we had won the lottery. I know from the last year nothing is straightforward with this share, and it could just as easily drop for no apparent reason on Monday. I mainly watch this bb from the sidelines and am sure bonkers is on the same side as all holders ,just he is being realistic and not getting too excited..
Sometimes it’s like a playground on here????
Seddo nice to see someone gets my point , appreciate your responce.
I have been in this share a long long time. I have seen the lows and the highs. I BELIEVE in Cine always have done that’s why i have a big investment in this. I was there at 20’s and there at £1.20’s but refused to sell because of the above. I agree with Bonkers of course persons are to be pleased to see forward movement but we deserve so much more. All the knock downs on good news. All the Knockdowns on bad news. Covid , Debt , Streaming , Court cases . Yet here we all are patiently waiting for what we know this share deserves. To all on this board i believe we will all be rewarded at some point but its a rollercoaster share with highs and lows it sucks the life out of you on some days but we all persevere . So lets be cool with each other we are all here to get rich in one way or the other. Good luck everyone our time will come.
Hope all is well mad Dan, good to see you posting more regularly again , rollarcoaster is a great word to describe
Bonkers who made a thread "mountainous"?
You are a hypocritic Bonkers, I have never had any beef with you at all, but call BC for day trading, looks like he is winning.
When I first come onto this forum and SP was dropping you were constantly telling us newbies NOT to sell most days, it's only a paper loss until you sell, hold on to your shares don't give them up, the SP will go up, you constantly said it, we believed it.
We watched it fall to 51p I think you are bitter about NOT selling at £1.20 as one of your friends on this forum did, you are thinking you could of bought back in at 51p and made more money, hell you could of retired early.
I don't know why you seem to have such a problem with LPD?
This is what LPD wrote, plus he shares other positive news on a daily basis.
"There seem to be a lot getting excited at merely passing through the 70p level. If you can actually find a reason for the fall from 88p and all the suppression that has ensued well prior to any court dramas, then I'd be obliged if you can share it"
I shared why I thought that was, on a different thread, I've added a bit to it, Lack of movie attendance, lack of revenue through the tills before July, other court case that Cine had to pay Regal share holders, Cineplex court case..... The worry of any big films that would be cancelled because of Covid.
You talk about us being in a club, you are now in a club with D9, FI, the other one..
and Seddo....... I think you are all forgetting we have been listening to the court case everyday which is positive in Cineworld favour, which may have helped the share price move and also we are in the travel stock.
The only thing that would take this price down is Covid and a lot of day traders. No other reason as yet. So yes we were pleased about the rise, and now thinking about the future rise because of the court case yesterday!
So forgive us if we were in a positive mood yesterday Bonkers. I can remember when you use to ask where has everyone gone, they told me it's not fun anymore!
I'm sure you are up on your investment Bonkers, I know someone who had gains of 100k and to see it drop, that person is still in the green but not bitter as he knows he will gain it back. Others who are in the red can see light at the end of a dark tunnel, and you are telling them not to be happy about the SP rise.
And Hi Robin, I never seen your post, I told you to add more money when it was 61p haha hope you are recoving well and out of hospital.
Pw please spare the lecture, I am certainly not bitter about this share , I brought at a price I was happy with and I will sell at a price im happy with , its the only way I know how , i responded in a thread my opinion and that opinion of mine was the only one that was then used dicested and used to put Me in a negative manner, I have the right to respond to that.
My issues with lpd are long before you arrived , and started when he refferd to me as idw , a true troll , unfortunately I should of ignored at the time and it escalated from there. At times I have been just as childish as lpd , he says he has filtered me good for him , take a leaf from his book if you don't lile what I type.
With regards to your opinion of me, your entitled to your opinion, if your opinion of me has changed I won't lose sleep over it, your an anonymous poster who for all I know could be a geezer that gets kicks from putting kisses on the end of your posts and then watch other men gush over them and give you some much wanted attention. My point Is you could be my next door neighbour or the Queen for all I know and care.
I invested here alone and I will sell alone , just because 4 or 5 of you have the same opinion and then crush any opinion that offers something off track doesn't make your opinion one that the majority agree with.
Geeez you could write the s.p will rocket due to some james bond loo roll , you will get your 5 or 6 craved likes and think in your head it's right , doesn't mean that someone who thinks different is negative.
Maybe if mountainous wasn't so critical in his respince to the non believers it wouldn't be like this today , don't you agree it could of been a reply of fair enough we want more but I still enjoyed today.
Lastly p.w please go back through my posts and show me one where I am truly negative about cineworld , and read the whole post before taking lines from it , you might find that I'm a lot more pro cineworld then you think.
Bonkers I have never said anything about James Bond, like I said you are still well up on your investment and looking at green, those who are in the red can see light at the end of a dark tunnel, and you were telling them not to be happy about the SP rise. You changed the mood of the board on a good day and people had the right to respond to your negitive post.
And the rest of your comment about me.... Wow, please show me where men gushed over me.... Jesus christ.
Yes my opinion of you has definitely changed.
I didn't say that's who you were , I simply said being a anonymous poster you could be anyone , like me and anyone else , I used your trade mark kisses as a EXAMPLE.
For what it's worth I'm in the red , only just and your opinion of me I couldn't care less , my opinion on people's opinion is all that's at stake here just like yours , after all that's all we share here
Hello Bonkers, sorry to open up old wounds but the so-called critical response you are referring to was a response to an entire thread you made regarding me. You instantly assumed that I was referring to you even though I made it clear that I didn’t want to name anyone. You were, and are continuing to be, unnecessarily inflammatory.
Your response to that was to make a whole new thread just to lash out, and I responded with my opinion on it.
I would also like to say that PrettyWild is also spot on with the way she characterised your behaviour here. It has never before been seen where someone who is invested in a company constantly has a bearish outlook towards it, and even more so the fact that you go out of your way to further spread your bearish outlook. When I came on yesterday midday and saw the string of negative comments I laughed my backside off, because some of the people who were there haven’t been seen on this bb for a considerable period of time, they only appeared with their negative sentiment when the sp was flying, what a coincidence.
If you want to continue with your persistently negative comments towards the company, that is your choice. However you should be prepared to be met with disagreement, especially when the vast majority of us here are bullish towards our investments in the company. Imagine going into your local conservative club and then you start spewing socialist ideologies, how do you think that will go?
I have the individual on filter PW for my own reasons. Immaturity, troll sympathiser and suspected trader. You can kind of gauge things from when they appear and post.
They can reply to me all day long. What they post is to me worthless and as such I miss nothing if it is not viewable. There are no novel insights or even any great level of research. Most importantly I don't waste any of my time replying.
In the main I post information and support it with the links attached. If they don't like it tough love. Facts and links are hard to argue against.
Vue were up to 75% attendance last time I saw their CEO give an update in the Independent and now EMAN are up to 80% attendance. Those are very good numbers and represent further improvement and given the additional increase in F+B concession spend and moving forward into Bond and the films we know are coming in Q4.
Best just to ignore and not respond to any of them. We are now at the juncture where attendance levels will be getting back to pre-pandemic levels.
The share price is nowhere near that and sooner or later it will catch up to reflect that. If it doesn't then they get taken over or the list, or part list in the US as they have stated they are looking at.
Bond advert has just popped up on BT sport at half time in the Chelsea v Man City game.
Mountainous yes I responded to you by thread hindsight prob wrong but it was aimed at me no doubt , I'm not gonna go through your post bot by bit apart from one bit, you said
f you want to continue with your persistently negative comments towards the company.
As I said to p.w please go back through my posts and give me examples of when I have been negative towards cineworld.
I will repeat AGAIN having a different opinion at times on current state of affairs doesn't make me negative , a troll , a deramper or whatever else you wanna throw at me.
Just like p.w and the others I'm sure you will ignore that bit , so in case it went over your head I will repeat please show me posts of where I have been negative towards cineworld , and don't take snippets read the post in general.
Opinions are just that ideally wouldn’t rile up anyone bearish or bullish but when people post information as fact I think it deserves to be challenged some examples over the year I have been reading on this board
Back in 20p days lots posting that we were about to enter a zombie apocalypse and a vaccine would never emerge - some would cheerfully post updates on the progress being made on vaccines
Then we had the naysayers that Cine was going to fold due to it’s debt as if it was a virtual certainty again some pointed to the fact that negotiations were ongoing and was unlikely given the business trading was paused rather then a fundamental issue with its business model ie people didn’t want the product
Then we had the slew of messages categorically stating cinema was dead and streaming was the way forward - again some stepped forward or challenge that and point to markets like China where cinema was doing extremely well post opening and what we could expect when regal/Cine reopened
Lots of messages about how covid was evading vaccination so Cinema will never be fully safe only to be challenged with data showing hospitals sadly full of unvaccinated people
I could go on with court cases, debt levels etc etc
The most recent example was someone who claimed that at 2019 revenue levels (4bn) Cine would be unprofitable as it couldn’t cover its costs and manage debt- with no data or facts to back it up - challenged back with analysis to the contrary
I am not saying these points shouldn’t be debated as that’s what I think the board is for and has made it an interesting read- if people come on making statements as facts then a polite but firm challenge is to be expected giving the other side of the argument
If someone comes on saying they are happy or unsatisfied about the share price I don’t really mind but my personal preference is to celebrate even small victories as it gives a nice feel good factor for a group of strangers rooting for the continued success of Cine and for that to be reflected in the share price
Hello Bonkers, I will not waste my time to read your posts. As lpd has also mentioned, they lack proper research, and I believe my time would be better spent elsewhere.
We are not here to pinpoint any specific post, but rather your continuously negative outlook.
For now, I will refrain from replying to this topic and will go back to our normal discussion topics. Let’s allow the recommendations on our future posts to speak for themselves.
Have yourself a pleasant Saturday.
Mountainous I want to thank you because in 1 post you have absolutly nailed on my issue.
You have agreed with lpd by saying you won't read my post, and then in the next breath you take a quote from my post. So you did read it.
This is my issue, my beliefs for recovery are the same as the clubs , yet because my expectations and time frame for recovery is a lot more realistic in my opinion , that I believe it will take longer then the club thinks , I am then labeled negative for having a alternative opinion. Even though you can't give a single example of me doing just that. Not one of the club has gave me an example of me deramping , being a troll or negative to cineworld.
In terms of you ignoring my posts from now on I really couldnt give a flying **** , you wanna follow lpd lead by being a sheep you do just that , I will not be losing any sleep because you are filtering me , but for info I will NOT be filtering you , I will continue to offer my opinion if I feel necessary on your posts , if I agree I will say so , if I don't I will continue too do just that just as I did yesterday.
Many have said they will filter me , very few acctually do , and unlike some of the club I'm not here for likes , I'm only here to make money just like everyone else
Since morning you have been screaming out loud asking to show your deramping comments despite HSN, PW and Mountainous summing up about your posts and yet you still don't get it.
Let me ask you one question Bonkers. Did you ever think of why this board doesn't have any new derampers since IDW left? The reason is because the club you are in with is doing their job so there is no need for anyone else to come here and deramp! Every board has village idiots talking down the share and the club you are in doing that job! You fail to see DD9's pathetic negativitiy in all of his 400+ posts and that shows your naivity. If you bothered to search for arbitrage technique that DD9 mentioned, you will see that it is about taking both long and short positions and your banker has both short and long positions in CINE. His short position is bigger than his long position. If you read his late night post, he said -
"Why don't I lose my s*** when Cine goes up? Why don't I cry when it goes down? Because Cineworld makes up a small portion of my portfolio "
Why do you lose shirt when Cine goes up if you are not shorting? That is why he says there is nothing wrong in shorting but you have been brainwashed with the balancing act so you don't see it. Your incompetence to understand it proves your naivety. All his 400+ posts of pathetic negative comments are because of his higher short position. He will disappear once CINE starts moving to 80p and above with the Bond release.
Now regarding the 150p share price that you keep mocking me at, let me be clear to you. It is not my finger in the air prediction! If you bothered to do any research on CINE then you will see that Jefferies gave a target of £1.50 on CINE.
Here is the link -
https://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/Cineworld+Group+Plc.+%28CINE%3ALN%29+%28CNWGY%29+PT+Raised+to+GBP1.50+at+Jefferies/18249719.html
I mentioned the same target price of £1.50 back in July when the price was crashing hard. That was the only one time that I mentioned and it was again not my finger in the air prediction. It is from Jefferies. Ofcourse to dumb Dragon(DD9) even Jefferies are irrational optimists and dimwits but he thinks he is not pathetically de-ramping CINE and thinks only he is the cleverest one and you have a high regard to him! Open your eyes and understand what is going on mate...
Smalltrader , this thread is all based on the fact because I wasn't celebrating with the rest of the club I was branded once again negative.
So let me ask you a question why did you not celebrate with them on the rise to 70p??? , I'm convinced you SHARE the same opinion as me that there was nothing to celebrate, you know there is a lot of volatility on this share and wether you like to admit it or not the drops come out of nowhere just as quick as the rises.
Your own admission was this share has at times gave you sleepless nights , and I'm also pretty sure at times you have questioned your investment here , that's not me knocking you and something I haven't had to enduer Purley because my entry price is pretty much worse case scenario I end up walking away breaking even. But any questions on your investment by you doesn't mean you are negative about this share right!!!!
I brought shares here to see a sharp drop some months later when they shut , i didn't have the guts to buy more shares at the time but i was a new investor to cineworld and held my shares at aassive paper loss, and I then watched it grow all the way to 120 odd based on news of vaccines , reopening, films , etc etc it all made sence.
Since March it has, as you know dropped significantly, not much logic in it and we now sit at a s.p similar to when we were last in the winter lockdown, so 2nd time it has dropped and 2nd time I now have to wait for it to climb. So forgive me for not having the same enthusiasm as some of the newer members of the club , my timeline here has increased over time with my initial investment timeline I had hoped to of been gone by now. In fact long gone.
I still believe in cineworld , the only thing that's changed is my timeline , my enthusiasm has changed , why wouldnt it
I'm sure yours has too , however im still here, haven't sold a single share and in fact brought a very all amount for my kids, so in fact added, however that certainly doesn't make me negative , a deramper , a troll , a forked tounge , a trader or any other words that want to be thrown my way.
I simply said 70p was NOT a time to celebrate.
Now forgive me but your whole post to me was about another poster , you accused me of being naive , but what you COULDNT do is show me a example of me being negative, a deramper , or a troll.
I'm filtered from the club , happy days for all I care really couldn't care , but let's be clear the reason that is isn't because of my views on cineworld , they are simply because I dare to disagree with the club from time to time, and not a single one of the club can give me a example otherwise.
For what it's worth i will chat to whatever poster I like , you mention dragon , we haven't always agreed , the same as me and fun haven't always agreed but at least we can disagree as adults and not be met by hostility. Who I choose to interact here is my choice and nobody else's , I for what it's worth don't believe he or fun are
Bonkers
I would say that a lot depends on the type of person you are and what personality you have.
I can relate to your sentiment completely, too many times I've let my imagination run away with things only to be cut down sharply and quickly.
I have watched my portfolio shrink by approximately 70k since June, mainly down to four shares, CINE, NEX, IAG, and Petrofac.
And now during the last week those paper losses have reduced to about 25K, mainly because IAG and PFC have turned it around and I am now nicely in profit, and CINE and NEX have both increased somewhat, and although I am still big in the red with CINE and a little bit with NEX, I feel slightly less stressed and almost relieved to not be that much down, only this much down, if that makes sense.
So I am not celebrating until I am well in profit especially with CINE, I am always going to expect to get knocked back with this share unfortunately, that's the nature of the volatility that goes with it, and given how much it is shorted, this is never going to be an easy ride.
So thanks for my much needed dose of reality.
And like most on here, I am hoping that next week we get more of the same.
I don't recall the book on how to be a successful overly emotional investor.
Bonkers your treatment by number of people has become appalling frankly considering the clear enthusiasm you have shown over many many months on here.
Just say £10 by September 31st and talk of your imaginary successes you will be a hero again ;-)
You still don't get it.
When investors post their opinion when they find something positive, you and your club just dismisses it. There are 1000s of such dismissive posts. Likewise you dismissed the rise to 72p as well on Friday and obviously some lost patience reading your posts and that is how several other investors also slated you but you don't get it. Now don't give me a fick about your balancing act. When you are dismissing every positive post then clearly you are doing the trolls job and that is why there are no new de-rampers. Get it?
Instead of attacking posters, do some research on CINE and post it. If you don't have anything to research then sit aside and let others post. There is no need for you to jump in like a monkey everytime and mock others.
No one is asking to post £10 by tomorrow. If that is what your little brain understood then that shows how immature you are in your thought process.
smalltrader - spot on imo
Let’s put an end to all of this shall we?
20th Sept 2021 13:06 : ‘My opinion no progress has been made with regards to the s.p’ -Bonkers
This was your response to me when I said we had made progress by at least behaving in line with market trends, and not constantly diverging from it and going down regardless of market performance.
Do you see where smalltrader is coming from? He explained that whenever someone posts something positive, you instantly shoot it down and you can see it here.
We are sick and tired of it, at the end of the day if you’re an investor you would want to hear positive comments about the company. Even BC at times was acknowledging the fact that we had a big amount of debt, so we are not all delusional optimists. We understand that the company still has a few problems but we also choose to look at the positives from time to time as well. Many of us come here to get a bit of motivation when we see the downfalls in the price and we were all enlightening each other and encouraging ourselves. We weren’t ever saying ‘wow tomorrow Jeff Bezos is going to approach Mooky and give away all c. $180bn of Amazon stock he has to the company’ or words to that effect, but we were sharing facts and news about the company to spur us on. Your response, as I’ve shown you an example of above, is to shoot it down, just as you did again on Friday with the rise to 73p.
I’ve given you the example that you’ve been pestering us for. Hopefully now you see our viewpoint better. I don’t expect another response from you regarding this; you have got what you asked for.
small T
If you can be specific and show me my post (s) on Friday where I am dismissive of the rise then we can discuss further.
If however you are just making stuff up in your head because you are an overly emotional investor struggling because your investment here is down then let's get over that eh.
Much of the insightful research posts you drool over hold little to no real value in regards Cineworld quite often.
They only serve to Stoke the pack mentality of everything is perfect but we are being cheated out of a pre pandemic share price by nasty M.M.s and anyone that doesn't follow the party line is all things bad.