Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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Or try this:
"MEMBRANE SEPARATIONS | Diffusion Dialysis
T.A. Davis, in Encyclopedia of Separation Science, 2000
Introduction
Diffusion dialysis is a separation process in which an ion exchange membrane separates a source solution and a receiving solution, usually water. Anion exchange membranes are notoriously permeable to acids, and diffusion dialysis exploits this property to separate acids from salts. A common application of diffusion dialysis is recovery of acids from waste metal pickling solutions, the strong acid solutions that are used to remove oxide coatings from metal parts before they are painted, galvanized or electroplated. Cation exchange membranes are permeable to bases, and this is utilized to recover NaOH from aluminium etching solutions.
Diffusion dialysis of acids through anion exchange membranes was reported as early as 1964, and was installed on an industrial scale by 1980. There have been many laboratory studies on membrane properties and transport of acid through such membranes. Therefore, the discussions that follow concerning the theory and practice of diffusion dialysis will focus primarily on acid transport through anion exchange membranes. Base dialysis is relatively new, and there is not a large body of knowledge about the mechanism of transport, design criteria and performance of that process. Until such information becomes available, it is reasonable to assume that the theory and practice of base dialysis parallels that of acid dialysis.
Since ion exchange membranes have an ionically charged polymeric structure, their discrimination between solutes is based on ionic charge. Anion exchange membranes are easily permeated by anions, but cations are rejected, because the positive ionic change of the membrane matrix repels the cations. Unlike other cations, hydrogen ions are an integral part of the water that pervades the membrane, and hydrogen ions seem to permeate by a different mechanism that avoids the rejection of the charged polymer structure. Anion exchange membranes transport acids while rejecting salts.
Figure 1 illustrates diffusion dialysis for recovery of HNO3 from a solution also containing Fe(NO3)2. The anion exchange membrane is quite permeable to the NO3- ions, but an equivalent amount of cations must also pass through the membrane to maintain electroneutrality. Because of their double positive charge, the Fe2+ ions are strongly rejected by the membrane, but the protons are transported rather easily. Thus, a useful separation of acid and salt is achieved."
Within this link - https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/anion-exchange-membrane
Historically the UK has been very good at inventing/creating new technology but very poor at marketing/selling it
Chipyjo,
Google acid mine drainage and scroll down to the ion exchange section in Wickipedia possibly.
What a lovely dilemma, IMHO we are invested in a company who after years of research have successfully brought a range of products to commercialization stage, not just any old products but products that are desperately needed it may -will take a while to get traction as it involves big sometimes complex decisions before sale is made.......etc etc....but does it sound daft to be thinking of some sort of link up with ITM?
Does anyone have a link to uses for Acid remediation?
There seems to be a link with contaminated land but I don’t think that’s the use here.
richlist, as I understand the situation they have said that they will license use of AlkaMem for non-fuelcell uses. The membrane will be used in their hi power cell, not in other companies fuel cells.
Doc7 and the wh ireland comment about alkamem may raise something I had not considered.
Using alkamem in the AFC (S) fuel cell will make a something competitive with the existing PEM market (size and power output) but with the considerable advantage of using lower purity and cheaper hydrogen. The price advantage of using cheaper hydrogen is a game changer.
This could leave AFC with a (fantastic to have) dilemma.
1) Do they licence alkamem to other PEM users. Perhaps they can improve their product to use lower purity hydrogen. This could earn a lot of money for AFC.
2) Do they keep alkamem to themselves so that the AFC (S) fuel cell becomes better than existing PEM fuel cells and takes a big chunk of the existing PEM market. This could earn a lot of money for AFC.
Ho hum..
I am holding on to my shares.
Will investors be getting updates on the demo programme this month?
My take Athasius
The AlkaMemTM doesn't replace the pem membrane, it has achieved almost the same current density but can use lower grade cheaper to produce hydrogen, pem is acidic and uses expensive noble metals for the electrodes. So afc's alkaline solution is a winner.
In other words....its flippin brilliant so lets hope we can see a little interest in the next few weeks to make a great start for the new year...that would be nice!
Morning athansius. Nafion and AlkaMem are both proton exchange membranes. They can be used inside fuel cells, Nafion in an acidic PEM fuel cell, Alkamem in a solid alkaline hi power fuel cell.
The bit of text I was referring was from the broker note detailing its possible use outside of fuel cells.
.
Sorry, for those not on the thread, I referred to the Alkamem before the investor day and again afterwards being a major source of revenue for AFC. ….many pages back now given the volume of posts. I also heard at the investor day that Alkamem displaces PEM membranes from PEMs. I think that is what Doc7 is saying, but Bumble B has a different take. I struggled at the investor day as I was in the second row from the back and could not hear well....or indeed see the slides, although that is now corrected.
Then I think my comments were right Bumble B. It refers to the membrane taking a significant share of the PEM market, not AFC fuel cells taking a significant share from PEMs.
I may be reading it wrong!!
Nafion, £3900 per square meter!
And a shed at Dunsfold can turn it out by the roll.
As I posted last night, all of NI's posts are cut and pasted from the WH Ireland broker note from 11th November. As AB said at the shareholder day, this is not open to private investors and it has copyright so I am assuming that NI has thought through his decision to post these carefully.
IMHO the projections in the note are far more conservative than what the company was saying last week but we will need to wait and see.
Doc, no the broker note is correctly worded. Nafion is a type of PEM membrane.
The link below also explains the varying thicknesses. The very thick material is used in situations where extra longevity is required, or when the membrane will be operating under high pressures.
https://www.fuelcellstore.com/fuel-cell-components/membranes/nafion
I see what you are saying BumbleB. It is badly written and confusing. I think you are right though.
Doc
Doc7, I think there is a confusion in that report. PEM cells have a membrane that operates in acidic conditions, so they cannot cope with hydrogen derived from ammonia, without scrubbing. They need five nines hydrogen whereas AFCs can cope with three nines hydrogen, much cheaper. I think what the report is saying is that the alkaline membrane could capture a considerable share of the market currently claimed by PEMs.
Doc, must admit when I first read it I thought the same. Guessing if you replaced for with than, it would make more sense.
Taken from NI's post:
If AFC Energy’s solid alkaline membrane (AlkaMem™) becomes as technologically robust as its liquid alkaline technology, it would, in our opinion gain a considerable share of the PEM market. In particular, the ability of the membrane to operate with less pure hydrogen (and hydrogen cracked from ammonia) means that it would require less expensive chemical feedstock for PEM applications.
I have not heard it said that a PEM fuel cell could operate on less pure hydrogen or ammonia. I wonder if that is right as I thought this is a function of alkaline fuel cells rather than a function of the membrane. If it does render PEMs able to use less pure feedstock then one of the AFC cell's USPs is undermined, but Alkamem will rule the world!
Best not to ask I suspect, just make good use of the info. Thanks again Nickel. Is there any more?
Hi Nickel , thanks for taking the time to share all that valuable information , may I ask where you got it from ?
On their website AFC are asking for partners across industry. Lets hope there will be opportunities abound, to sell the technology.
I think I am with you on this one DW.
Do you really think those running the company and pretty much all its investors give a damn what happens in 10 years time????
How many installations will AFC ALREADY HAVE in 10 years time, with cartridge replacement contracts in place for the following 10 years????
I've held the stock for 11 years. I don't want to have to hold it for another 10 years, I want my ROI a lot sooner than that!
Selling the membrane IP for £500m gives us and AFC what we want, today.