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Wolf, are you selling Teslas or hiring them out to your drivers
Dog,
Lets debate point 3 now about FSD
Here is a link from Twitter today
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1440265832521551887
A lot of the MC or Tesla is due to FSD , but that may be overdone.... discuss
Hi Eileen - I work in finance and order company cars for the qualifying employees on my payroll. Mostly higher up IT staff and top ranking salesmen.
This was the first car list post covid and after all the diesel tax issues so have added many PHEV and EV options which due to the favourable benefit in kind treatment have been largely taken up by the drivers.
Even at the lower levels we’ve got models like the Audi A3 sportback PHEV and Hyundai Kona EV.
Some of the other feedback we’ve had is that Tesla dominate the charge points as well in most service stations. So non-Tesla charging can involve queuing quite often including the time required to top up. I’m sure this will be sorted soon as the infrastructure improves and I think Elon is licensing the points out to other manufacturers.
Eileen
Here is a much more meaningful clip from youtube showing how to use FSD properly and how well it performs now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7ofCmtWP78
As I have already stated Teslas being driven with FSD engaged are 9 times safer than cars without FSD.
I never said FSD was feature complete or that there could never be an accident and bear in mind that being involved in an accident does not necessarily indicate that the Tesla vehicle was at fault.
From the research I have done FSD will be solved by AI and that to solve anything with AI you need data vast amounts of data Tesla has about 4 billion miles and counting of real world driving data which is many orders of magnitude higher than anyone else.
The American authorities are currently conducting an evaluation of Tesla FSD and other manufacturers driver assist systems which will have very interesting results but don't hold your breath this is going to take a long time 4 billion miles of tesla data will take some going through.
Dog,
Thanks i'll give that a watch
Wolf,
Gotcha that's really interesting.
Just seen this link:
https://twitter.com/CityAM/status/1440598520386387979
"London’s largest taxi company, Addison Lee, has pledged it will operate only electric vehicles from 2023.
The London firm said it is investing £160m to shift its 4,000-strong fleet to electric. This will involve putting 200 Volkswagen ID.4 vehicles on the capital’s roads every month from November."
Dog "
Just one point. " I never said FSD was feature complete" , i understand you aren't saying that. But Elon HAS been saying this. I'm sure you are aware of his ridiculous "robotaxis by 2020" statement, which a lot of people did believe.
It is only now that Elon and Tesla are having to admit that they have overhyped the reality. And of course this is not the only thing Elon has made ridiculous claims about and he's still at it. (did you see his recent "dancing robot" which was a girl in a jumpsuit"
( it seems it's all abou the shareprice for Elon )
Eileen
Elon is a really accomplished sandbagger he uses this tactic to divert attention from what the company is actually doing to send the competition in the wrong direction. Case in point Elon's plea for nickle producers to produce a lot more nickleI to ease battery constraints and then signing up CATL to produce hundreds of thousands on LFP batteries. I am still not sure of what to make of the Teslabot the specifications appear fairly unambitious and I would not be surprised if there was some Elon sandbagging going on here. We will not know how ridiculous the Teslabot is for a while, apparently we can expect a prototype next year. What I would say is that FSD has massive implications for the project as the robot will need to operate in the real world be able to navigate where it has to go and need to have spatial awareness which the FSD AI will be able to provide. Have you seen the Boston Dynamics robots? One of the robots has Tesla logo on the side so maybe working together.
As for Robotaxis by 2020 well it was certainly a big ask and an impressive goal unfortunately still not met but that does not mean it will not come to pass and maybe sooner than you think.
Eileen
You say its all about the share price for Elon I am fairly sure its not. He has on a couple of occasions said that the share price was too high and got into trouble. Elon is apparently currently living in a very small two bedroom house near Spaceex Boca Chica. He takes no salary from Tesla (by law he is paid the minimum wage which he donates to a charity) yes I know he is extremely wealthy and owns an awful lot of Tesla shares. I do not believe he is driven by money. After selling Paypal he could have retired in luxury anywhere in the world and never lifted a finger again instead he takes on Tesla and founds Spaceex and works pretty much every waking hour every day and has taken no holidays for years.
Dog,
"Mercedes-Benz and Audi target Tesla with aggressive pricing on new electric models"
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/mercedes-benz-audi-target-tesla-electric-pricing
Competition never stands still. The remaining gap is constantly closing.
Dog "ou say its all about the share price for Elon I am fairly sure its not"
I would say it is all about the Shareprice for Tesla. At the moment, without government subsidy , they do not make a profit. And even with subsidy they are low margin profits.
What this means is that if the market decided to price them at the same multiple as other auto manufacturers then the shareprice would collapse.
In fact i recently saw a calculation which showed that the Tesla SP would be 20$ if the market priced it on the same multiple as Volvo.
Dog "As for Robotaxis by 2020 well it was certainly a big ask and an impressive goal unfortunately still not met but that does not mean it will not come to pass a"
Dog, I think this is perhaps a difference between Tesla Fan boys and everyone else. It is clear that it was a ridiculous prediction two years ago. And it simply isn't going to happen anytime soon either.
Of course you are free to believe "that does not mean it will not come to pass", and in fact that is what Elon thrives on and wants you to believe.
Eileen,when do you think audi ford vw etc will start to open their solar farms to power whole countries?
Kump "when do you think audi ford vw etc will start to open their solar farms to power whole countries"
Kump, not sure what you are referring too, but it reminds me of another ridiculous Elon promise , when he claimed that the Telsa charging stations would all be powered from solar panels. Well simple engineering maths shows that in order to do that you would need a football field of solar panels. And that he was again talking garbage. (knowingly)
Jep , "This company never ceases to fascinate and can be debated for centuries!"
Jep, welcome to the debate. Tesla is a one off I think. IMHO Elon is spinning plates which represents the Shareprice. It's all about that for him and the company.
Elon is Charles Ponzi reborn in the flesh. Every week he has a new gimmick to manipulate the share price and if you also look at the insider trades of Tesla shares, they mirror a pyramid scheme. The director and people in the board, buy and sell their own shares in high volume constantly and it make no sense except to conclude share price manipulation. Elon did not invent the electric car or Tesla. He stole company through unscrupulous deals with Ebberhard and Tarpenning who became his corporate victims. He also never solely invented PayPal as repeatedly claimed by the Tesla cult and fanboys. He is not a saint, he is a convicted securities fraudster who uses social media to misdirect investors. The crypto world is another damning case of his manipulation of the financial space. His company is not green, it is stained in dependency on oil and fossil fuels plus his raw materials mines actively use child labor slaves.
Evidence links below
Elon's conviction on fraud charges
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-219
Elon's use of child labour slaves for batteries
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/blood-batteries-fuel-the-fortune-of-elon-musk-qkhlvp5dr
Chief, Someone once described Elon as a "subsidy truffle hound", because of the way he seeks out countries who will give the most in Governent handouts.
The world's richest man paid for by the Tax Payer, or the world's richest Welfare junkie
Eileen
The Mercedes at $94,000 after tax break is hardly competition sure it is cheaper than Model S but does it have the performance? The Audi I think you will find it is the starting price (9 pages of 'extras') and again the performance stats do not compare. Incidentally even if they were true competition just how many do you think they can make?
Eileen
Like Tesla is the only the company does this I think you will find every large employer in the world is playing this game and Tesla plays it well they did not even have to try to get 1.5 billion dollars for building the battery factory at the Berlin factory.
Chump
On the first count he got 20 million dollars any more evidence?
I do not deny that use of child labour in artisanal cobalt mining in the DRC is rife. Just because it goes on does not mean Tesla is guilty of it they apparently make great effort to source the cobalt they use. Not only that they use much less cobalt in their batteries (none in LFP ones or the new 4680's) Incidentally do you know how much cobalt is used by the oil industry in refining crude?
Dog
Apparently the hidden cost of Tesla insurance "gets" a lot of unsuspecting buyers. A huge amount which doesn't seem to be factored into the cost of ownership
https://twitter.com/montana_skeptic/status/1440683850485538820
Eileen
Scroll down the comments there seems to be a mixed bag of responses. I am not surprised that insurance is relatively high Teslas are still fairly rare, relatively expensive and Insurers certainly know how to pile on the costs for performance vehicles, many Teslas have super car acceleration and top speed so super car insurance rates are hardly surprising. Surely anyone buying a new car looks into insurance costs and gets quotes before taking the plunge.
Eileen
I did not mention Tesla Insurance because it is not an option available in most places yet, apparently it is very difficult to start an Insurance company with many bureaucratic hurdles. Where available there is the option of Tesla Insurance which I understand is very keenly priced owing to the fact that they have driver and vehicle information indicating safe (or unsafe) vehicle use on which to make the quote.
Dog, people wouldn't expect it to be 500 / mth.
That is v.high
Eileen
Without knowing the circumstances previous driving record number of violations / tickets age of person and model of car it is impossible to say. Many years ago I came across a 19 year old with Ford Escort RS 2000 who could only get Insurance from one company at £4000 a year (this is a long tome age when 4 grand was a hell of a lot of money)