If you would like to ask our webinar guest speakers from Blue Whale Growth Fund, Taseko Mines, Kavango Resources and CQS Natural Resources fund a question please submit them here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
''some were divisions of larger corporates (like Smiths Industries)''
That takes me back LeMajor, as my very first job out of college (late 80's) was as a Junior Product Manager for a subsidiary of theirs' (Eschmann Equipment)
Just to emphasise the irrelevance of MC in a takeover context, out of 80 or so acquisitions I covered less than 35% were quoted companies. Some were privately owned, some were divisions of larger corporates (like Smiths Industries) so the MC did not even exist.
Just to emphasise the irrelevance of MC in a takeover context, out of 80 or so acquisitions I covered less than 35% were quoted companies. Some were privately owned, some were divisions of larger corporates (like Smiths Industries) so the MC did not exist
I thought actuaries were more boring than accountants - what do I know.
Seriously, I have worked with many accountants, and spent 5 years managing an acquisitions team. My teams role was to establish an accurate valuation of annual income in target businesses. I am very familiar with NDA's and dealt with directors, auditors and accountants from both sides. No-one I worked with gave credance to the MC, as it had absolutely nothing to do with our valuation process. Similarly, no-one on this BB can predict to any degree of accuracy what Sareum would be worth to a major player - unless they know who that player is, and how their evaluation process works. Thoth seems to understand the industry, so has some credibility IMO, a few others come close - but in the final analysis, turnover, debt, patents, market competition, expert institutions, regulatory limitations, etc, etc, all have influence on the valuation, as do the auction participants (if more than one). The sp and it's directly related MC, at best, provides a starting point to eliminate all but serious participants.
Predicting future SP is a whole different discipline, and in that context the MC has a part to play but keep in mind it is no more than a "virtual snapshot of wishful thinking".
Whilst are off piste.
An accountant,lawyer and an actuary are having a beer debating whether its better to have a wife or a girlfriend.
Accountant- wives are better as you can spread tax allowances on your profits.
Lawyer- girlfriends are better as you dont lose your house.
Actuary- its better to have both. When you phone up to say you will be very late. Your wife thinks you are seeing your girlfriend. Your girlfriend thinks you are staying in with your wife. Which gives me the perfect excuse to get in some extra hours at the office.
Whilst I'm an Engineer, I do always find this one funny. Have a great weekend everybody.
Three accountants and three engineers are traveling by train to a conference. At the station, the three engineers each buy tickets and watch as the three accountants buy only a single ticket
"How are three people going to travel on only one ticket?" asks an engineer.
"Watch and you'll see," answers an accountant.
They all board the train. The engineers take their respective seats but all three accountants cram into a restroom and close the door behind them. Shortly after the train has departed, the conductor comes around collecting tickets. He knocks on the restroom door and says, "Ticket, please."
The door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on.
The engineers saw this and agreed it was quite a clever idea. So after the conference, the engineers decide to copy the accountants on the return trip and save some money (knowing that accountants are clever with money). When they get to the station, they buy a single ticket for the return trip. To their astonishment, the accountants don't buy a ticket at all.
"How are you going to travel without a ticket?" says one perplexed engineer. "Watch and you'll see," answers an accountant.
When they board the train, the three accountants cram into a restroom and the three engineers cram into another one nearby. The train departs. Shortly afterward, one of the accountants leaves his restroom and walks over to the restroom where the engineers are hiding. He knocks on the door and says, "Ticket, please."
Does anyone know the humorous story which compares accountant, sales manger and various other company roles in the context of driving a car down the motorway without windscreen wipers?
BTW the Sales Director is the one with his foot to the floor on the accelerator, the accountant is the one looking out of the back window telling the others where they have *been*.
Wish I could remember the rest of the roles in the story.
Hxxx
I think, in regards to how much everyone is stating the calculation works for worth, using my maths teacher experience, we can all agree that the worth is significantly less under PH...
Look into how to value a company. Not how to work out the market cap. How would you value a company that is private?
That is what I said Thoth. However the market cap is supposed to be a reflection of the company’s worth and how that worth is calculated (by an accountant) is based on future cash flows and risk factors, as I said. In AIM this may have no reflection as it is not an efficient market as we see from the big swings in co valuation.
We are probably arguing the same thing. You are saying market cap is share price x shares in issue which is obviously true. I am saying that the market cap should be a reflection of future cash flows weighted with risk to give the company a value.
Not sure what accounting you do Blue and White, but as per the economic times: Definition: Market capitalization is the aggregate valuation of the company based on its current share price and the total number of outstanding stocks. It is calculated by multiplying the current market price of the company's share with the total outstanding shares of the company.
Hence why the Macap changes directly in relation to the share price
My point was simply that comparing the Share Prices of 2 different firms with no consideration to anything else isn't particularly helpful...and regardless of how you define what an MCap is or how relevant it is to the current and future potential value of a firm it surely must be a better means of comparison than a Share Price and nothing else?
"How do thery calchulate mcap"? Thoth on the pi55 again?
As an accountant i can confidently state LeMajor is absolutely correct and blueandwhite is confused. How do thery calchulate mcap quoted on this page or in the ft. Its simply no of shares in issue times sp. There is no argument
Le Major as an Accountant your assessment is incorrect. The market cap of an organisation is the value given to them by the market as a whole. This is done by calculating future cash flows multiplied by a risk factor of this actually happening. What cash flows and risk factor attributed, will be based on the users predictions that they have calculated. This will determine the market cap of which you divide by the number of shares in issue to get your share price.
The share price in itself tells you nothing. It is merely a reflection of the market cap based on the shares in issue.
The Sierra Bears took a hiding yesterday and are still wondering why because of the dilution proposal. They seem confident of more luck today but I am not so sure. ‘It’s the Science idiots” comes to mind.
Mcap is simply the "market assessment" of the company value. It relates directly to the sp. ( sp* shares issued = MC). It bears no relationship to the actual value of the company, as that depends on how it fits into the strategy of the buyer. If the buyer is intent on acquiring the company because it is a competitor, its value may be less to them than a company who wants to add a new product to their range and break into a new market. Comparing MC's cuts out the need to calculate an "exchange rate" between sp's as it has already been done.
Its not a bad shout, the Sierra LTH of shares will understand the value 737 presents to them and SAR and the volume of new investors could equally have an interest in investing in SAR.......... "we seem to be a Best Kept Secret" If Spank Sierra is peaking then look to our 4.10 its a strong buy.
Jonshare - apologies but I don't follow your logic in comparing our SP with that of Sierra in terms of comparing value of one against the other, our MCap is currently £140m and theirs is £320m ($430m) approximately.
Looking at Sierra SP at around $28 id mention that on the back of their success will surely benefit Sar.
The 4p is to put alongside their SP to show how low the SP is in comparison and at 4p is definitely something to invest in. Obviously add a few more of what we have to entice them.
If you doubled on sierra would you not consider Sar at 4p and perhaps even sell 10% of your holding as 4p could turn that 10% into 20x profit.
Also at 4p is low risk in comparison to the $28 so many may think Sierra has hit the peak
I think this is a super idea. I bought Sierra shares before start of play yesterday. First time I have bought International shares. I thought their message boards were really lively and think if a few of the more eloquent and knowledgeable posters on here told them about SAR it would be hugely beneficial. Certainly cannot do any harm. GLA Alice
Spanky ... you are right MCap is the important indicator ... not that Sierra are in a position to spend ... they are cash strapped at the moment
Why do we mention the SP is only 4p? - surely if you're going to highlight anything then the relevant thing is the MCap?....forgive me if I'm talking nonsense, complete rookie here but the SP alone doesn't tell them anything does it?
Technically Sareum has no impact on Sierra now, but they most definitely have an impact on us.
Perhaps we need to have this discussion on the Sierra message boards
Remind them that Sar is linked to their success and would be a great investment alongside
And at only 4p