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It’s going to be a long long nasty fight, could go on for years, even after an outcome any appeal or appeals will prolong it. If it’s proven there is doubt on One or both sides the due diligence will come under scrutiny big time!
The US courts will be an extra complication for Ocado. They take patients very seriously I worked for Kodak in the 80s and 90s during the Polaroid lawsuit. Very costly for Kodak and probably was the catalyst for there decline as they were unable to compete in the digital revolution and remained in the traditional 35mm imaging world, hence there demise.
Ocado could well have to fight on both fronts. I am a great admirer of Ocado however there could well be several years of uncertainty. They will not risk any further ventures at present imho. UK courts tend to favour injunctions initially to prevent further damage to both parties.
Casapinos,
You outlined interesting detail re the UK patent court case procedure. Do you have any comments on the US patent court procedure? Seems the case is being pursued in the UK and US simultaneously.
Similar to yourself and edtheeuph I feel this issue is murky and have a feeling there is less risk for Ocado than the market is currently factoring in
Thanks!
Really appreciate the above. Good reading.
Its certainly in their DNA casapinos.
Worth remembering that Chilting identified that Autostore are now owned by a US private equity group who , I suspect, see an opportunity to , at least, be bought off, or maybe to screw over OCDO while shorting the SP , though that last thought is merely conjecture!
Good summation edtheeuph,
I think in general the share price was overstretched so many used this legal case for a rethink and sold off and crystallise gains. I believe the share price will rebuild. It was doing so recently but the huge nasdaq selling has thrown it off course today.
Easy to forget in all the discussions re the legal case that Ocado was £10 earlier this year. It has risen hugely to date.
Useful reading Casapinos - thanks for that. I can't help wondering if the patent issue is just a political bargaining chip to gain publicity for Autostore 'The Grocer.co.uk' said Autostore have filed - no idea on the legitimacy of this, but wrote their legal is saying Autostore is 'All-in' - understandable, but misguided from what i've researched, autostore is relatively limited in size and capacity compared to what Ocado can offer - providing just the storage solution with slower tech - so my guess is they see their product being swallowed by ocado - so why not take the gamble? The money they spent on lawyers will likely be comparable to spend on some decent PR/marketing and they get to temporarily through some smoke and mirrors in the direction of their new nemesis. - I would ask why if the Autostore solution was so capable, why a Grocer would feel compelled to spend 20 years building something bigger/ better/ faster to meet their own needs or be foolish enough to risk that amount of effort not being watertight on the IP front - I suspect this is unlikely. It could even be that Autostore are attempting to goad an acquisition from Ocado and hope this will up the ante. I'm no business expert though - so this is purely conjecture, I just smell a rat.
Have a great weekend all! It’s going to be fantastic! -3.6% Nasdaq down 2.9%. Whats it saying?
Terra all.
Cheers shaggers54.
Clear, logical arguments outlining negative issues re Ocado always great to read and discuss. Posts like "when will it stop falling", "down, down" won't hold any weight
the "and???" was to neil ...sorry
? You've lost me shaggers54
and????
Nasdaq down 2.8% today so far. Understandable that tech stocks are dropping under that sort of pressure
Well they were £29 and now £23 -22% in a week or so, with £15-20 in clear sight!
Shame this court case is going to rip the heart out of this equity! Years of misery. But then this board doesn’t like comments unless they are positive, as your chief cheer leader says on M&S
I hope you get out while you can. Do your own research!
Thanks for your insights casapinos. Always interesting
I posted here on the 26th setting out the basis on which patent disputes are dealt with. Here is a little more background. In England and wales patent disputes are held in the patents court and normally take about a year to be brought forward AFTER FILING . So far as I am aware no filing has yet taken place. Depending on the complexity of the case a further few months may pass before a judgement is delivered. In these Covid times i suspect that unless and out of court settlement is made we are talking resolution in 2022 at the earliest.
Judgements can vary but are most likely to result in a fine on the infringer if the case is proven, at the extreme that may be a sum equivalent to several times the cost to the patent owner from loss of anticipated revenue. In this case that MIGHT amount to many millions if the claimant can prove that they would otherwise have earned large revenues , though it seems that Ocado would argue that use the technology in dispute as only a(small) part of their solution. At worst I guess that OCDO might be on the hook for few hundred million. In the grand scheme of things I think that may be a small price to pay. The likelihood of OCDO being forbidden to use elements of the tech. in dispute is both small and damaging to both parties in the case.
I am not holding and unlike some I am not subject to the tyranny of round numbers as an entry point, so i may well start to re-enter in stages over the next few weeks absent any further revelations.
Anyone who wants to read further can consult
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/3-623-0277?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true