We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Cloudy, thanks for reassurance. No, my Barclays system does have "no" as the default but I was assuming the button has to be pressed to activate it. Yes, what you say is logical, I was being paranoid.
Nodoubt Nova have extended it to hope more who didn't get round to vote first time will vote yes. A pretty vain hope though. Offer should have been much higher, as has already been said, "a miser always pays twice".
GLA
Too many “offers” - sorry. A bit like Nova!
You must have a different system with your broker (odd). With mine, the default is not to accept the offer. Therefore if people do not vote (as you say), they do not accept the offer.
That’s eminently logical - I would imagine that they can’t have the default being to accept the offer as that means anyone not seeing the offer would be deemed to have accepted it, for example. I can’t imagine that that would be acceptable in law, which would explain why you have to take positive action to accept the offer.
Do you have a default of accepting the offer? I don’t see how yours can be different to mine.
P.S. I ignored the first offer. I still have my shares - the system didn’t take that as accepting the offer. I will ignore the second one too.
Can someone comment please? Is there a trick going on.
Back in early March the date to vote by was 8th March I believe, so I voted against. Then a week later I get a message that the offer has been revised and on looking at it I see the price offered has not changed but only the vote by date which is later. I voted against a second time.
Must holders vote twice to reject this? I am concerned that many will not vote twice (against) and the offer could go through by stealth.
Am probably being paranoid but it was a worrying doubt.
I hadn’t read it. Thank you.
I wish I could vote against the offer. I have a choice between accepting the offer to buy my £10 note for £9 or not accepting it. I haven’t got the option of telling them what I think of it, sadly.
I don’t want to sell even for £10. I want to leave them untouched for 2-5 years and then reassess. I could hold them for far longer.
Yes, I've just voted no to the latest attempt to take my shares from me on the cheap.
I'm sure you all read Martin Armstrong's blog. It saved me last February, to be honest, but his political viewpoint can get me down at times. Anyway, one of today's articles talks about inflation coming this decade and there should be a downturn in the Dow this month and up again from May. Obviously the Nasdaq and S&P are leading so their downturns are in progress. I thought you may like to read and make of it what you will.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/armstrongeconomics101/economics/welcome-to-the-wave-of-inflation-into-2024/
I couldn’t agree more. It’s a fascinating article.
I laughed when they extended the offer because they haven’t had sufficient numbers take it up. “Roll up, roll up! We will buy your £10 notes for £9! Turnaround time for paying you is about 10 days compared with 2 in the open market. The open market will pay you £10 - wait 6 months and it might pay you £12 or more. We encourage you to act quickly”. I bet you do!
The reason they gave for the offer was ridiculous.
Thank you, Falcon01, for sharing the article with us.
It’s a very good article, and presents a strong argument for rejecting the bid. As mentioned several times before on the chat, it seems like a classic case of the main shareholders trying to bully the little guys into selling up. Don’t do it! The fundamentals are great, valuations are low on many metrics, copper is only going one way and that’s up. I’m more bullish than ever. This goes to £10+ in my view. Just have to be patient and let this saga play out. GLA
KAZ Minerals: Shareholders Should Reject The Buyout Offer https://seekingalpha.com/article/4407394-kaz-shareholders-should-reject-buyout-offer
DYOR.
Am I right in thinking that they now have approximately 60% of the shares i.e. 50% before the offer and 10% gained through the offer?
I gather that the 20% acceptance was 20% of the outstanding shares i.e. 10% of the company (not 20% of it).
I’ve never seen a takeover bid offer such a small premium above the share price. If we are going into a supercycle, as is being speculated, it’d be foolish to sell.
I think they'll be forced to ditch the offer. Copper is in a bull market which should last most of this decade. There will be the usual ups and downs to the price, but copper and oil will be the best places to invest. I rejected the offer and will continue to do so until they give up. I'm a very LTH here.
I recon the directors can't win taking this private. If they offer £10 the share price will go to £10. They would then need to offer £15 and then there might be a take up or maybe the share price will just follow up to £15? What do people think?
Given there is effectively a floor price of 780p, there’s ~ 5% downside risk from current spot price. On the upside, there’s a favourable macro environment, an ongoing switch from growth into value, and a generally inflationary commodity outlook. Considering the above, and the current dip in metal prices, there seems to be a decent short term opportunity for this share - very limited downside risk, but reasonable probability of either increased bid or resumption of uptrend in commodity prices, or both.
Given the price at which the shares have been trading in the market since this offer went out I'm surprised they even got the amount of acceptances that they did. It's difficult to think there were such a large cohort of very small shareholders in KAZ where accepting the offer represented the most beneficial exit route. Causes one to question if some of the acceptees are not part of the concert party!
(Alliance News) - Nova Resources BV said Wednesday the level of acceptances for its Kaz Minerals PLC acquisition at the end of its first closing date is just under 20%.
The offer by the vehicle of Kaz's chair, will now remain open until March 23.
"Kaz Minerals shareholders who have not yet accepted the increased offer and who wish to do so, are urged to do so as soon as possible," the company said Wednesday.
What a desperate position for the board, Please just increase the offer to an acceptable £10 per share or walk away. Shareholders are no fools and they should stop trying to chance it
thanks Shakhtar from the tone of the rns, in parts it is as if they are trying to scare holders into selling
Thanks Shaktar, we've all come this far. Stand firm
..Sorry, not AGM, but you know what I mean.
Shakhtar: I’m sure Rastuss will be very pleased with this example they’ve been set by kindly capitalists who have only their best interests at heart! Only two weeks to wait now. Good luck with it, everyone who’s held out. The AGM will be virtual, surely? Give Mr. Southam a good kicking, he deserves it.
Well that was a resounding NO from shareholders to Nova's 780p offer!
Here in Kazakhstan people don't get much opportunity to see democracy in action, so good to see (and Rastuss will be particularly pleased) that Kazakh oligarchs are getting a lesson in democracy from the western investors. Of the 50% of shareholders who were free to vote (I exclude those "Nova's friends" who signed the irrevocable undertaking), only 9.2% accepted the offer while 40.8% said "Thanks, but no thanks!". That is almost 82% of minorities rejecting the offer. That is the clearest message yet to both Nova and the so-called "Independent Committee" that shareholders are no fools.
Given such a poor result for Nova, I fail to understand their tactic of extending the offer to 23 March without raising the price now. What are they hoping for? That the copper falls and market corrects in the next two weeks, and those who rejected the offer would suddenly change their mind? Surely those are long term shareholders (most of them anyway) and if they decided to keep their shares, they are unlikely to change their mind just because a correction might happen in the near term. And I doubt very much copper would reverse its trend in the next few weeks anyway. So why prolong the agony? Either increase your offer now or walk away. The increase to the bid is surely now inevitable! To get to 75% they would need to offer £10 at least, otherwise the offer is clearly destined to fail (IMHO, no advice intended).
I would love to have been in London in April so I could come to the AGM and see the directors (and Andrew Southam in particular) squirm when grilled by shareholders on how they let this debacle happen. Because those 40.8% of shareholders who rejected the offer will surely now be voting against reappointment of those not-so-independent directors who have been trying to shove this offer down their throats, first at the outrageously low 640p (how dared they!), then at still unacceptably low 780p, while all this time pretending this was a fair price for a company that's set to generate $2bn EBITDA in the current year. Will they face this embarrassment? Or is Nova going to save them from this by increasing the offer? That of course depends on how deep Nova's pockets are. It looks like they can increase the offer to at least 925p with the money they've got from VTB Bank. Surely they can go into their own pockets now to up the bid to £10 and get it over and done with. Otherwise, please, just walk away and let the market set the fair price.
DYOR. GLA
Thanks Shakhtar
shakhtar, many thanks for your comprehensive reply. I just wanted to be sure that if they got to 75% then I would be given an additional 14 days to make up my mind which you have confirmed.
Bobsdad, they cannot get to 75% AFTER the offer closes as by definition it will have been closed to any further acceptances. If they don't get to 75% before the offer closes (currently 9 March), they have an option to extend the offer period (up to a maximum of 9 April). If at any time while the offer is open they get to 75% they must announce this and then have to keep the offer open for further 14 days (even if they get to 75% on the final day of 9 April). You will then have 14 days to either sell your shares in the market (if the price is higher than their offer) or send your acceptance form in and get the offer price once the deal closes.
I think it doesn't looks like they can get to 75% by 9 March as SP is staying well above the offer price, but still a few days left so who knows. If they don't, chances are they would have to up the bid, and if not on 9 March, then certainly in a few weeks after that and well before the final deadline (9 April) so to give people chance to accept an improved offer. If they don't raise the price, I think their offer will fail. Time will tell.
With regard to the offer I wonder whether anyone can tell me what happens in the following situation. I am minded not to accept the offer or to sell my shares in the market at this time. If however the bidders get to 75% I would be rather nervous as to what happens next. If they did get to 75% after the offer closed then did I recall a previous post suggesting that I would still have 14 days to then sell my shares at the offer price?