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Somewhat alarming seeing people getting overexcited over this latest DRC development. In my opinion it's a recipe for PIs to get carried away and lose big money.
Remember Red Rocks supposed partners VUP didn't tell or involve Red Rock, they didn't think Red Rock deserved any money, they also didn't sell the assets but voluntarily surrendered them. So because in RNS Bell says "we are confident of our position morally" then that could mean Andrew has a super weak contract with VUP and he's not confident of Red Rock's position "legally". I don't know why everybody is saying RRR should go after Glencore because surely if RRR had a solid written contract with VUP then they would go after the supposed partner (VUP) who were trying to rip them off?
Then again investors can do what they please. Anyway here's an RRR rns from 12 Oct 2020 that highlights a dispute in Congo.
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/RRR/summary-key-projects-vr5yaf6e8v22d3t.html
Also next day 13th Oct 2020 Bell did a Stockbox interview and between 6.40 mins and 11. 40 mins he talks a little about the Congo dispute.
Watching interview I do fear everything wasn't registered correctly and any Red Rocks contract with VUP is flimsy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rFKCJA4j7jc
https://twitter.com/graddhybpc/status/1450042930429894656?t=gO7oXCCXz8L23xeuendptA&s=19
Looking better.
Luanshimba news next please. Confirmation of a commercial copper Cobalt discovery would go down nicely.
DYOR
That’s a lot of money RRR could get, but will the shareholders see a penny? The last of the family silver is busy being sold and expenses are high. And anyone who’s had anything to do with Andrew Bell over the last 10 years should know to take whatever he says with an extra large pinch of salt.
This reputable Glencore or another one?
https://www.ft.com/content/4ecf86da-2cc1-4c7e-a5fd-7b2da1efe3f9
DYOR
Ta Helpful. I suppose I found it hard that a reputable Company like Glencore would get the asset presumably knowing we had a 51% JV stake with VUP and AB could be not involved. No need to reply as I have probably got it wrong again. Cheers.
Robins you need to read stuff or listen to stuff and then remember it so you can then place it in the chain of events.
AB confirmed that GC was in communication with RRR re Musonoi in late 2020 and then suddenly DK'd us. As did VUP.
VUP is suing Kamoto (the relevant GC subsidiary in DRC) and Gecamines for the unpaid $15mil. If VUP surrendered the license back to Gecamines, why is VUP suing Glencore? Why has $5mil been paid over but not the full $20mil. RRR has had a garnishee order issued freezing the $5mil plus the $15mil which prevents Gecamines paying the $15mil to VUP. Why would the court grant the order? Well because in VUP's court case it stated that it did a deal to surrender the license back to Gecamines, who would then sell it on to GC for $20mil and Gecamines would then pass the $20mil on to VUP.
Why did GC not just deal directly with VUP? Well because they had already been in negotiations with RRR re the VUP JV and already knew what the situation was. Doing a deal with the VUP JV through RRR was going to be more expensive and so they cut us out by going the back door route.
Unfortunately for them they fell out and VUP has put chapter and verse in the DRC court suing for its $15mil. RRR would not have secured the Garnishee order so quickly unless it was clear and further RRR has frozen Kamoto's bank accounts and secured a lien on Kamoto's DRC assets.
Both GC and VUP have a serious problem but the big cheque for us is GC.
I have some legal training and am familiar with some of these issues so it makes it easier for me. But get hold of the hard points and then it makes sense.
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/5-382-9829?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true#:~:text=Interference%20of%20Contract-,Related%20Content,in%20damages%20to%20the%20plaintiff.
RRR is now getting Counsel's opinion in the UK and then it will need advice on quantum.
The claim should be sufficiently large so that a legal funder would take it on.
DYOR
Helpful is it possible that Glencore too were deceived and we have no claim against them? Or would the simple thing for Glencore to do is give the assets back to us? Or are there too many parties all guilty and RRR will have to fight them all through the courts? Or will Glencore simply send us a cheque? Very mirky.
Possible Expected Anticipated and never delivered. Kind words for all investors.
PS
we have two claims:
The first against VUP in respect of the $20mil and the second against GC for depriving us of the asset.
The interesting one is the latter. The claim is against GC is not 51% of $20mil but the economic loss to RRR of being deprived of the asset. This has been going on for a while and GC's actions and conspiracy prevented us taking steps to procure a JORC and monetise the asset; RRR had to do a number of fund raises at prices lower than otherwise be the case and RRR had to turn down deals it otherwise would have proceeded with if Musonoi had been properly valued on the Balance Sheet.
Remember we orginally farmed into the partnership in respect of some tailings: these went elsewhere and the three licences in the VUP JV were compensation. They were supposed to be equivalent to the lost tailings plus some for our trouble. Gecamines reckoned that there was 200k tonnes of copper and 24k tonnes of cobalt at Musonoi. Any claim would be based on 51% of that loss over the next 10/15 years. A good case can be made that the claim should be for between $500mil and $1bn.
RRR was in discussions with GC till late 2020 about Muonoi. No way can GC claim that they did not know RRR's position. They cut us out to get the deal cheaper than otherwise would have been the case.
DYOR
but never creates value for shareholders.
Not true. There is a difference between the SP and creating value.
1. GC have just paid over $20mil to cut us out of Musonoi. That is not zero value. The true value of the deal had it bbeen done properly and legally would have been higher.
2. Migori CPR 700k + oz of gold should be minimum value of $30 an ounce. That CPR will be getting upgraded as the drill results come in on the current programme.
3. The RRAL/NBGC listing will be going ahead shortly. That should be at least $5mil for RRR's stake.
4. Luanshimba results out shortly. RRR has already disclosed it is a discovery, the next step is to confirm that it is a commercial discovery. We should get the update any day.
5. Elephant Oil should list January and that should be a decent amount for RRR.
And so on. Loads of value in RRR but the market isn't pricing it in.
DYOR
Yes, along with: Greenland sale falling through because of the Cypriot banking crisis, failing to manage El Limon, not selling JMS shares at their highest price because of a gentlemen's agreement with Brian Gilbertson. I could go on if I could be bothered to go through the memory bank.
At the end of the day Gary Carp and MrMagic was right and I was wrong. RRR is a good company to use to identify red flags in other companies you consider investing in. Poor corporate governance, no director buying, CEO/Chairman who lines his own pockets but never creates value for shareholders.
Nonetheless I hope long term holders one day get a spike in the share price that will allow them to exit.
Just listened to the two interviews and AB seems very confident but lets just see if he can deliver.
By accounts, he means Glencore's bank accounts in DRC have been frozen.
There has been some interviews today explaining the legal action, the key point for me at least, is that Bell says they have frozen Glencore's assets in the Congo, this looks like a meaningful and material claim, how ironic this could be the value kick RRR needs in the market.
Breaking down the lengthy explanation here, post from A@VFN .....
"It looks like $20m was going to be paid for (a project) which we have just over 50% of."
"We have a good remedies and we think we will come out more than ahead."
"We have over 50% of a joint venture which controlled certain assets, including one right next
door to Glencore's big pit, right up to the boundary which contained cobalt and copper, there was
no question that they (Glencore) wanted this asset. Somehow or another we are led to believe this
asset has now ended up in their hands."
Andrew Bell suggests that RRR JV partner passed the asset to a third party for a large sum of
money who subsequently sold it to Glencore for an equally large sum of money - $20m has
been mentioned of which it seems $5m has been paid to date, the rest of the money has not
been forthcoming so far.
RRR is taking legal advice and has frozen Glencore's accounts in the Congo (mentioned in the
Proactive interview) here ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIIPLW2taP0&ab_channel=Proactive
After 5m 40 secs.
And then a Stockbox interview
https://twitter.com/StockBoxMedia/status/1460974041070817301?s=20
"The worst position is we are owed 51% of $20mil."
Don't make this out to be a positive one-way bet. I offer a slightly worse case: Years of legal wrangling and spiralling costs, regular cringey Proactive interviews claiming to be a master of dealing in tricky jurisdictions, eventual write-down on the carrying value to £0.
Not to mention of course the yearly wealth transfer from the shareholders to the incompetent management. I can't wait to vote him down at the AGM. If it is the case of him keeping the plates spinning then I'm perfectly happy to see them come crashing down like a Greek wedding and mark it down as an allowable loss.
more useless RNS'..... fun raise ahoy
There is no doubt that the projects/assets Red Rock have are worth a great deal more than the current value of the company, the issue is management, no-one has any faith in Andrew Bell to deliver, his name is toxic in the junior resource space plain and simple.
Bell stood as a candidate for a political party at the last General Election until they withdrew the seat at the last moment, think about this, did Bell have any concerns about Red Rock at that time, if in the unlikely event he had been elected as an MP he would have been unable to carry his duties out as Exec Chairman and CEO of Red Rock? I noticed this has never been commented on but surely it demonstrates his heart is not 100% focussed on this company, if you follow his personal Twitter feed he continues to add commentary throughout each and every day from politics to virus concerns and any other matter that floats his boat, again it demonstrates his lack of total commitment to Red Rock.
I have no understanding as to why the major shareholders continue to back him, Bell has openly stated that it is bad corporate practice to have someone (himself) as Exec Chairman and CEO, at the start of the year he said he would address this matter, it has not happened. Why ?
Bell has stated he is interviewing a 'high profile' name to drive value, either as CEO or COO, this move cannot come soon enough but like everything Bell says until it happens no-one will believe it.
I remain invested here at a relatively low entry point but am getting as frustrated as the next investor over the continued failure to deliver on targets that Bell himself has set.
Today's updates were poorly written and conflicting, what a mish mash of commentaries across a number of projects, hard to understand, this news should have been released across 3 or 4 updates as they covered the same number of projects, there was some good news in them but tarnished by dispute in the Congo which could be beneficial to the company ironically.
Bell need to get his act in gear, appoint this new name, get focussed, there is no way I will support his re-election at the next AGM regardless.
Zumore I try to remain positive and on a good day think I might get £10K back some day. I was not the only person kidded here. Briarbank eventually learned the error of his ways and that guy who was massively invested here but he soon departed disillussioned.
Some may not believe me Robins but I am genuinely sorry for your losses. It sticks in my mind years ago when you said you were at that time down £40,000.
It is also annoying watching Helpful. He really isn't some Helpful guy. He has arranged loans for RRR in the past and he is on this thread to direct matters and to spread his outlandish information and I'm sure many believe him.
I'm sure he's been told if he spreads outlandish information on a thread then he can get away with it if he ends posts with DYOR.
Last year I recall him telling those who had lost in RRR that if they were stupid enough to invest in RRR in a downward surpressed market then that was their fault.
Apparently him and his big shareholder clients were clever enough to buy into RRR at the correct time.
Zumore I have been virtually wiped out here. Waited years for AB to bring some dosh into our coffers but it just never happens. Never understand how the largest shareholders do not take action as presumably they are down on their investment?
From my understanding HELPFUL's client is the biggest RRR shareholder. So he will say anything to sucker people into RRR. So when he says " the worst position is we are owed 51% of $20mil". That's a lie! It's made up. The RNS doesn't say that.
I'm convinced he finishes his posts with DYOR to cover his back. And I suspect when he convinced investors to invest into RRR some hearts sank when they realised that the person who advised them to invest in RRR was a ramper who plonked himself on the RRR thread for years on end trying to ramp RRR.