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Last post: umpteenth, 18 Feb 2019 11:16
am sure you all got the ' with immediate effect ' , letter like I did in the post this morning , I would just like to say some last words b4 I end blocking on this stock - here it goes - F@£K , F@£K , F@£K
Started: horsetrader2, 14 Feb 2019 12:12
Last post: redkite4, 16 Feb 2019 20:53
Looks like Sage was on the slide when Flattery parachuted out, and is also now in a fight for survival.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/11/inside-britains-biggest-tech-company-fight-survive-brutal-year/amp/
I find it obscene that a CEO can award himself such a high salary whilst the financial position of the company was so bad. Corporate greed at its very worst. There is something very wrong with a system that allows such large rewards for total and utter failure.
Started: UUrrgghh, 15 Feb 2019 14:08
Last post: UUrrgghh, 15 Feb 2019 14:08
Aye the lights are officially out. Feel sorry for all those staff who spent money on shares in the last six months. A true politian to the end.
Well their Nominated Adviser has just quit so under Stock Exchange rules, if they don’t replace them the shares are de-listed, I believe
Feel sorry for all the employees made redundant but what happens now in terms of the business? It's gone into administration but what if no buyer is found? Where do shareholders stand?
Started: Hewn, 15 Feb 2019 13:45
Last post: Hewn, 15 Feb 2019 13:45
Observerbill, such abrasive comments wear me down, I'll file them accordingly.
As for Inspired Energy, a completely different company I'm sure you'll agree, with well diversified revenue streams, conservative revenue recognition and a lack of skeletons in the closet. To borrow from Rudyard Kipling, if you can keep your name when all about you are changing theirs (seemingly every 5 minutes), perhaps you are not trying to escape a dodgy past!
Started: Ohdearohdear, 14 Feb 2019 17:36
Last post: observerbill, 15 Feb 2019 09:05
Totally agree with your sentiments - these are sand castles. Only an unwise person will invest in shares in this industry. It’s only a question of time before they go down the pan.
Having left a fairly steady job to go and work there for what appeared to be a great opportunity I came to this conclusion. Some time ago. The biggest mistake made by BF and his band of merry men was going for an ambitious strategy when clearly a recovery plan was what was needed. As a result they’ve promised shareholders the earth and ultimately crashed and burned. This whole TPI industry is built to fuel the greed of sales people and ultimately the cut throat nature and need to squeeze margins cost them their most effective sales people who took their order book with them.
Ultimately the consumer loses. Once the market is regulated most of these companies will disappear.
Don’t judge the book by its cover
Thank you for your kind observations - what you fail to understudy that fundamentally this sector is flawed. Cash position or no cash position, the Goveryis changing the way these companies receive revenue - sort of half way to total rwgugulation - they earn their money same as utilitywise- so sooner or later they are f****d
I think you mean “hallmarks”......and you’re clearly talking boll**ks because their cash position is so much stronger than UTW’s ever was. Their revenue recognition policy is totally different which is why their investors love them.
Started: Trader14, 14 Feb 2019 10:25
Last post: redkite4, 14 Feb 2019 16:18
If that was the plan, I don't think GT would have waited to sell his last holdings as a penny share.
As Handofjohnson points out, this was on the cards at the time BF was appointed, and he has spent 2 years doing nothing to rectify the situation. There was an opportunity to take extreme steps, manage the 2 year transition from payment on contract to go live, and come out with a platform for growth.
Instead, it seems that he came in believing his own publicity, but never got to grips with the business. And if the local rag's reporting is accurate, to confirm at the weekend that staff would be paid for February, then close the doors on Wednesday is, as horsetrader2 puts it, obscene.
Could BF have just been brought in the be a fall guy taking circa £1m in salary and bonus in 2 years and let GT walk away with millions? He has something like 11 dissolved businesses under his belt before coming in. With the bullshit accounts and over nominated AQs inflating the value of the business beyond what it was worth........probably just letting my imagination run wild
Started: Handofjohnson, 14 Feb 2019 10:42
Last post: Fullyaware, 14 Feb 2019 11:08
In 2012 I worked there unfortunately and it was obvious then what they were doing, glad I left after 10 months, sometimes you have you take a job to get over a short period of difficulty!
The cash payments to staff in placing orders with certain suppliers, the lying and uplifts taking place and the start of extending the time you would call people ahead of an end date.
There are many more examples of the short termism for quick profit.
......So to you just joining the party I have been stating this was on the cards for nearly 3 years.
To the idiots who questioned my motives and attempted to 'muddy the waters', i hope you are pleased to have assisted in the loss of other investors cash.
The issue as I stated over, and over, and over again was the cash flow situation. This was (and still isn't) understood by many investors.
The very minute the clawbacks came from the suppliers, the business fundamental changed and extreme steps were required at this point. All non-profit/revenue generating areas of the business needed to be stripped back at this point.
The original business received income upon CONTRACT ACCEPTANCE with the supplier. This changed to 7 weeks POST LIVE date. This drastic change meant that staff could hot target, month in, month out and not actually generate any revenue.....but still be paid salary.....remember contracts can be agreed/renewed up to 2 years before the current deal ends.... but it would still mean £0 in the bank for 2 years.
This business model CAN work if built 'bottom up' e.g. sales staff in place first, once revenue received (not just recognised) then infrastructure could be built e.g. marketing, hr, legal, admin, health and wellbeing, subsidised canteen, company vehicles, Christmas parties etc etc.
The bloated infrastructure remained in place and did not adapt to the changes in how the business operated.
The initial issue was caused in part by the former CEO but his successors had over 2 years to rectify this matter and did nothing.
Their answer was to add additional revenue streams that had smaller margins but shorter journey time from sale to revenue.
They ended up diluting the brand and becoming a 'jack of all trades'. When they attempted to sell merchant services in November it was a huge red flag that cash flow was the main issue....I raised this and got shot down.
"Oh the order book is worth too much"
"Oh the market cap is only £4million"
"Oh it must bounce back"
"Oh it will be 20p by christmas"
Where are you all now?
Morons
Started: Fullyaware, 14 Feb 2019 08:33
Last post: Fullyaware, 14 Feb 2019 08:33
It's amazing they got away with it for so long.
Now you have one of GT's sons running a claim service for people wrong sold energy contracts.
No doubt he has an extensive database of prospective clients form UW
Started: Enternalcynic, 14 Feb 2019 08:22
Last post: Enternalcynic, 14 Feb 2019 08:22
Hopefully the SFO will end up knocking on the doors of the previous incumbents. Having seen the result of some of their near fraudulent activity has cost a lot of hard working people their livelihoods
The sooner business energy is properly governed and regulated the better. It’s just a breeding ground for corruption and greed as it stands.
The problem at UTW is that the lunatics were running the asylum, a scenario I imagine plays out in a lot of TPIs
Started: bristoljohn, 14 Feb 2019 08:07
Last post: bristoljohn, 14 Feb 2019 08:07
Surely there is residual value in EIC that was owned by UTW (and subsequent shareholders) , inst that worth something to us lowly PI's
Started: horsetrader2, 14 Feb 2019 05:07
Last post: horsetrader2, 14 Feb 2019 05:07
Awesome performance !
How sad for the staff, that the management team had their heads stuck so far up their own rear ends
Started: peakyblinders, 14 Feb 2019 02:06
Last post: peakyblinders, 14 Feb 2019 02:06
Let’s be very clear here. A lot of people (staff as well as Directors and ex-Directors) have made a lot of money out of UTW over the years. That’s fair enough (leaving aside any specific points around sales tactics and revenue recognition policies etc for the time being). What I find shocking is that the ex-CEO and ex-CFO have both gone on to setup businesses whose business models are predicated on slating the very type of business that made them multi-millionaires. Where’s their dignity and self-respect? It’s all very well them lauding it up in their big houses but what about the staff who are now out of work and desperately scrabbling around for work? Many of them have only ever worked in this sector so where do they go to find employment to pay their bills and feed their families? Meanwhile they have to observe their ex-Directors taking the proverbial! Shame on you!
Started: Trader14, 13 Feb 2019 17:36
Last post: Anon321, 13 Feb 2019 22:57
Back again Mr Richardson? Your username would never give away who you are.
How is Troo Cost doing? The revolutionary energy broker after you made your millions at UTW?
The questions about revenue recognition at Enterprise were known for some time. There was always more value in the *profit making* EIC business than was recognised, even by current management. Quite ironic that that's where the remaining value is, although with the loss of customers and key staff over the past two years, it's not what it was.
I feel for all PI's I really do. It has to be said that the core of the staff that remained (the grunts not upper management) after others left to continue to write fantasy business elsewhere gave their all writing clean, recognisable. and compliant business, Never let it be said that the workforce was never less than 110% committed. Troo is correct, who's going to want 20m of debt when you can pick off the profit for a fraction of that from the administrators.
Nope. It’s game over. Staff out of work with immediate effect. I suspect the offers they received weren’t big enough as they would have had to take on the company’s liabilities.
He did but it obviously wasn’t good enough. EIC, T-Mac and Icon are still trading (look at their website).
Started: Jordee, 13 Feb 2019 17:11
Last post: Jordee, 13 Feb 2019 17:11
Doors closed at 4.00pm today!
Started: Viper79, 13 Feb 2019 16:07
Last post: Viper79, 13 Feb 2019 16:07
I think they mean this - http://www.utilitywise.com Very sad for the decent hard-working members of staff left unpaid and out of work. This will hit the North-East really hard.
Enough said
Started: Trader14, 11 Feb 2019 11:15
Last post: redkite4, 13 Feb 2019 15:42
I agree that it might be what's best for the company, but any proposal would most likely lead to massive dilution of already next-to-worthless shares. The banks hold all the cards and have no interest in existing shareholders.
Certainly does Peaky - sure I read somewhere they aren't taking claims against them
Leaves an interesting dilemma for Business Energy Claims doesn’t it, Anon321?
I disagree - I do think it’s what is best for the company and many are hoping this comes off so that it can be saved. Also sure it will deliver shareholder value
Wonder what the critics who accused him of the accountancy issues etc have to say now......
Very kind of you to say so. Something else to consider is that for all the criticism of GT, he built the business up and would not want to see it collapse. Which makes this particularly interesting: Utilitywise founder Geoff Thompson makes bid to rescue the business https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/geoff-thompson-utilitywise-rescue-bid-15820397?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
This might not be the best result for existing shareholders and the management team that have overseen the decline in the last 2 years, but might be a hint of optimism for employees.
Started: Trader14, 12 Feb 2019 21:37
Last post: Trader14, 12 Feb 2019 21:37
I’m in two minds about this news, on one hand he was responsible for the company at its most profitable state. On the other the things and practices that got them there can’t really be applied to the current market place with the SME data universe shrinking under GDPR regulation. Unless the outsource lead generation to an overseas country and close in the UK maybe. But that max uplift max term ideology doesn’t work on micro business with an online comparison tool.
Started: bristoljohn, 9 Feb 2019 11:55
Last post: bristoljohn, 9 Feb 2019 11:55
Couldn't have F88ked this up as bad Mr F and his yes men have
Started: Pooks, 8 Feb 2019 19:50
Last post: Pooks, 8 Feb 2019 19:50
I very much agree with redkite 4 I’am being given this information through my broker and notes put out via the company to corporate shareholders, frankly from a serious analyst point of view I’am being advised any value has sadly gone,
Started: Trader14, 7 Feb 2019 17:27
Last post: redkite4, 8 Feb 2019 13:21
The difference between recognised revenue and cash has been long debated on this board.
When a is recognised as revenue, it does not give you the cash to pay salaries until it is paid by suppliers. The question whether recognised revenue will eventually materialise as cash has caused numerous debates about the fair value of this business.
We know that the business took cash advances from suppliers, based on expected future consumption at an agreed commission. The three challenges listed in the RNS are that:
Some of these contracts under-consumed leading to restatement of revenue, and repayment of cash.
Some contracts terminated early (industry processes exploited by competitors).
Suppliers are limiting the level of commission.
We know from the RNS that there is a £25m debt facility that needs to be refinanced in April.
We know the banks won't refinance without further investment.
We know existing equity holders have no appetite.
We know from the Sept trading update that debt was £17.5m, that order books were down and that management were blaming last year's failure to publish accounts and resulting suspension for affecting 2018 H2 sales – “The operational and commercial impact was greater and more far-reaching than the Board had expected”
Has this impact continued into 2019 H1? How will this year’s suspension affect 2019 H2?
If you were a supplier, would you be keen to pay cash advances for new business? Would you be concerned that under-consumption and early termination of existing contracts might require you to claw-back cash?
There’s a lot we don’t know, but based on what we do, in the absence of significant investment which existing investors are unwilling to provide, the business needs to find £17.5m (+- change since July) that the banks are no longer willing to finance, by mid-April.
You’re right, people are jumping to conclusions that the company’s failure to confirm that salaries will be paid in March means that they won’t, and there is no information that supports this assertion.
April, however, is a different matter entirely.
By recognised I mean paid, if a contract is paid and recognised as cash how can that cash then not be used to pay a salary?
Started: Trader14, 7 Feb 2019 16:02
Last post: redkite4, 7 Feb 2019 16:23
You can't pay salaries from recognised revenue.
I fail to see how you can all jump to these assumptions based on limited information provided by a local rag. Most likely based on wild speculation from competitors to cause panic and chaos. I find it hard to believe that they will struggle to pay wages in March or any other month due to continued acquisition sales from their field and telesales division. The revenue recognised from field alone would be able to pay the salaries left to pay.
Someone mentioned this must be a terrible time for the people that work there, I absolutely agree with this and many of them will be looking to this chat to try and get perspective on what actual share holders think of the future of the business. So try and base your opinions on actual facts and bare it in mind before posting utter shite rubbishing the reputation further
Started: peakyblinders, 6 Feb 2019 15:35
Last post: redkite4, 7 Feb 2019 15:58
Even Chris Grayling wouldn't have made such a mess. For staff to be told that BF is in constant negotiations with the banks is a bad sign. They have told him they need new investment, so BF is only trying to keep the business on life support. He should be seeking new investors (unlikely) or trying to salvage some value from the business. EIC should be worth more than the market cap. While claiming that H2 trading was affected by last year's share suspension is most likely just an excuse, the longer this uncertainty continues, bigger consumers who read the trade press are unlikely to sign or renew, and what value is left is being destroyed.
That must be horrible for the staff working there, and with the morale of remaining staff so low, it won’t be long before the business is worthless. I don’t know how it’s possible to make such an almighty mess of things.
Started: Viper79, 7 Feb 2019 07:48
Last post: Viper79, 7 Feb 2019 07:53
The company note are still totally out of there depth, crying out for investment in bad strategy after bad strategy, the company, in my opinion is almost worthless, I have a few long standing friends who now are employed or been employed by this company and they say the managers still quite bad, the recent newspaper about February pay maybe a bit of false information as from what I here some departments have been total, no investment or sale and that means no pay.
I have followed this chat for a long time with some interest and think I put my opinion forward.
Front the start the company was flawed by bad accounting errors and a company valuation far higher than what it should have been, Mr Thompson and the crew ran a rip you off company praying on the weak and putting uplifts into contracts which no doubt has made some smaller business suffer.
Now that Mr CEO is involved he is inexperienced, probably oversold and overwhelmingly out of his zone as is most of the board.
The company now find that there misguided strategies have all be wrong, and all the rip off and false figure are effectively bringing the company down.
I feel very bad for the staff as most of them are honestly and hardworking and were not involved with all the wrong doings.
I agree, any value left will be swolled up in costs and some doggy accounting to favor priority shareholders as for us mere mortals we’ll get nowt .