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It's a real address, whether Amit is or,ever has lived there is entirely another matter
Champagne no longer on ice?
I wonder if that address in London put on twitter was real or not...
Another option is baseball bats and a transit van
Not going to bother with the SFO, they won't touch something like this, probably refer you onto someone else and you will end in circles.
The only real option is a class action which either needs SH funding or a no win no fee solicitor if one can be found. If Amit is wealthly and still has available funds game on, if not it's a no go.
We aren't getting a pay out, been obvious for quite a while.
Well done Doug, it's about time someone took the initiative and reported him, as with COPL it looks like shareholders have had enough of these frauds and are now fighting back. I also believe Amit is sick and gets some sort of enjoyment out of these bogus updates, a power trip maybe.
I’m not in his clique, he hasn’t even returned an email since I called him a Jeremy hunt
The only “inner circle” is amit himself.
i think there are probably a few others posting on here who regurgitate snippets that amit has whispered to them, but imv that’s just about some gullible folks acting as willing dupes and mistakenly kidding themselves that they are in a favoured group, rather than any of them genuinely being in an inner circle.
flattery and faux confidences have long been part of the game here imo.
@1984 IIRC you were a big supporter of ABH (& maybe considered by some to be in the inner circle). What’s changed your mind so drastically?
Recently raised a report with the Serious Fraud Office under its filing for :
‘ I want to provide information about a case of serious or complex fraud, bribery or corruption (affecting several victims/harming the wider public/impacting on the UK as an international financial centre, and/or likely involving large sums of money in the tens of millions of pounds or higher)’
I have reported that Amit Ben Halim has used the UK financial market to enable placings amounting to almost £9M to finance Cloudtag. That this company was then voluntary withdrawn from the London listing. And that subsequently, this companies assets were then sold for $275M which is being held in an escrow facility. That the company then has misled shareholders over 22 subsequent company posts of transaction problems. One victim allegedly having taken his life & so attached the link & screenshots to London South East CTAG bb with relevant timimgs, forwarded to the SFO.
I have no knowledge of any alleged further placings that might have contributed to this complex fraud, so this was not entered. Perhaps others may have information?
There then exists the possibility that the UK shareholders of a previously listed company are being defrauded of $275M.
Personally I believe Amit is a sick man which was referred to in report, but that belief does not preclude that the $275M possibility, no matter how far-fetched or remote, does exist, until at least an assessment of Amit Ben Halim is carried out.
This report then gets sent to the Director of the Serious Fraud Office for assessment.
I do believe that Amit should be held liable for his irresponsible actions towards the UK shareholders. And that the oft quoted ‘$275M held in escrow’ then meets the SFO requirement for ‘tens of millions of pounds or higher’.
Fingers crossed that there is then a resolution arriving that puts an end to this sorry saga.
Whatever the tax arrangement is, it’s either a figment of Amits imagination or it’s been done to benefit him
Why are individuals being asked to complete personal IRS forms if the company is selling something in the course of its normal business and then distributing the proceeds to shareholders as a dividend? This has never made sense to me and I posted as such when the IRS forms were first mentioned. The point seemed to be answered by assuming it was some special dividend arrangement direct from a US based company to Cloudtag shareholders.
In the logical scenario of Cloudtag selling the asset and then distributing the dividend, why isn’t Cloudtag completing a corporate IRS form. There are many London based FTSE companies with worldwide interests, they take care of the tax liabilities in the various countries they do business and when they pay a dividend to their shareholders, they don’t require individuals to complete paperwork for all the various tax authorities in the countries where the payment originated - it is taken care of at corporate level. Why is this then not the case with Cloudtag, presumably on the hook for 15% US withholding tax with the dividend then impacting shareholders in line with receiving payment from a Cayman company and however that is treated by the tax regime where the individual is resident/domiciled?
Hi 1984
Looking at response to your query I felt I should elaborate it further but I would also explain about CDIs which some other asked.
CDIs were mentioned in an update on cloudtag website on 19/05/2017. It did say that company will issue certificates to those who held CDIs. These were not registered on CREST (electronic register book) maintained by company registrar Computershare.
After delisting many SHs got their certificates from computershare as they held the records for LSE.
I came across an investor who showed me his certificate which was issued in July 2017 but it was signed by ABH. He had bought those shares via an overseas bank which used another overseas brokerage in a different country. I won’t disclose the jurisdictions.
Basically some form of trading happened even after delisting from AIM.
Regarding contacting all in unison even I couldn’t understand the need for it at first.
There are 2 parts to the process. Acquisition of assets and transfer of funds from buyer to the seller and second part is transfer of funds from seller to the SHs.
If you look at the agents in Americas they are regulated by SEC as well as FINRA. It’s not surprising to see why they are controlled by SEC as these are the companies who knows details of acquisitions including the assets being acquired, price and parties involved. Any leak can lead to unregulated market and untoward movements in share price if either party is a listed company. I agree our product may not have an earth shattering impact on the share price of the buyer but the agents have to follow very strict rules maintaining the confidentiality. I can only see this as a reason that we all will be contacted at the same time via email. Once we access the portal source of funds and that means details of the buyer have to be revealed to both brokerages as well as individual shareholders.
This has to be done at the same time. But once again this is my knowledge.
Wow! You're still here! No investment but the most ardent of posters and followers of this, not looked in here for ages and that very, very sad spike still hasn't moved on with their life. Therapy needed and I'm not joking
A few points.
Let me correct you on the Third group of shareholders who were issued a share certificate by Computershare. By law Computershare must keep the contact details of the shareholders that the certificates were originally sent to so all the "Agent" or Amit needs to do is contact Computershare directly, the only issue being are those that have changed both their address AND email since.
"both deals were concluded before the 7th Sept 2023" do you know this for certain as you can't rely on Amit's "updates"?
"Normal deals have small number of SHs to fill in those details. Around 10-20 SHs. With us there will be at least 100-150 people holding certificates." This again is pure guess work on your behalf, I've been in delisted shares in the past where 1000's of certificates were issued, from my understanding some brokers such as Barclays, Shareview, HSBC, Jarvis and probably many others all automatically issued certificates, at the time of delisting Cloudtag had many 1000's of pi's, it was a very popular share thanks to the ramping of AberdeenMan, Mr Selfridge, David Grease and the useful idiot Liam who amazingly still has his Cloudtag blog still up https://cloudtagblog.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/why-cloudtag/
Great work Phoenix; all the information is there for SH to see; take out the misleading timelines in the updates and it’s all in front of us!
Big question is wether you believe ABH will get this over the line or not; there’s still lots of SH believe he will.
I would imagine an update within 7-10 days saying this recent issue has been ‘ring-fenced’ and agent contact will begin (insert date)
Good luck
Utter garbage from (at best) a fantasist.
I still don’t understand why everybody needs to be contacted in unison when you can’t trade the shares anyway
If anything, someone being contacted at all even if ahead of me would be comforting rather than disadvantageous.
I imagine very few people care who the buyer is or what order they get paid in so long as they do
A very clear and concise explanation Phoenix, many thanks for that.
Part 1
I’m writing this post as I am aware many long term holders are confused about last few updates and now anxious. I thought I would share some of my knowledge and understanding about recent events to allay some of their concerns.
I am unable to comment about possible endgame but only trying to explain possible scenarios that could have shaped the current situation.
First of all there are 4 kinds of investors. Those who hold money with brokerages. They don’t need to worry about if paying agent had their addresses or their emails as the brokerages will receive money and pay into individual trading accounts/SIPPs. Second group is certificates issued to shareholders issued by Amit directly. Third is group who decided not to keep shares in a trading account like Barclays or holders with HSBC/Jarvis who issued certificates under the name of the company registrar then Computershare. My understanding is these shareholders emails will not be with the paying agent. Fourth group is SHs who don’t have their holdings either in trading account or in the form of certificates.
Third and fourth group of investors once the distribution starts they will have to contact Amit directly.
There are/were many other challenging situations. More than dozen brokerages in different parts of the world. Their paperwork will be different as sets of regulation for cross border transactions vary from one jurisdiction to another.
Company has nearly one billion shares on the register. As mentioned above all those group of SHs holdings are accounted in that figure of one billion. None is missed.
Group 3 and 4 shareholders are possibly not claimed by any brokerages and neither agent have the details of those. But those shares are included in total of one billion.
To add to this complexity after trading was stopped on AIM on 28th March 2017 certain brokerages allowed trading an instrument called CDIs. These CDIs were stopped from trading only around 15th May 2017. Those are not exactly shares but are counted as shares.
There is 4.8 cents allocated for every share but at the moment no emails identified for group 3 and 4 SHs. Monies for those shares will have to be put it in a separate trust fund and managed separately by the company.
Part 2
Now let me try and explain the escrow situation. I believe both deals were concluded before the 7th Sept 2023. But the paperwork to actually acquire the assets only began after 7th Sept. Once paperwork finished money gets transferred to another escrow for distribution by the agent. I believe we are at this stage. The paying agent has money in the escrow.
As we are a delisted company like any other company which is not trading we are not obviously equipped with the necessary paperwork and the process has been daunting. Also for the same reason we would need a specialist escrow/paying agent who can take the challenge. The paying agent will be feeding all the details of group 1 and 2 SHs into their software/portal. We will be asked to provide our details into the portal and if those don’t match it will raise a flag. You will be able to see the documentation including the buyers name and the assets acquired through the said transaction before you accept the money.
For this reason all shareholders will have to be contacted at the same time as the portal will reveal all the details at the time of the payment. Hence the need for a contact to be established via email and not postal address. “Contact in unison”.
This is my understanding when I enquired with some industry experts who deals with acquisition of assets from non-trading companies like us. They receive payments from the buyer into an escrow. After completing the papaerwork between the two parties money gets passed into another escrow before paying to the SHs. This is lengthy and challenging process at many stages. Normal deals have small number of SHs to fill in those details. Around 10-20 SHs. With us there will be at least 100-150 people holding certificates. The total amount of work is almost equivalent to 5 transactions. Anyway we are already 12 weeks into the process so hopefully few more weeks before it’s done.
This is my knowledge from various sources.
I wish you all good luck.
Will become 22 updates later, im guessing next week.
Will the next update have agent details / definite payment date....not likely!
Yeah be careful AIM4 and 1984, I am a traffic warden, I've got my own notepad, hat and everything. On an unrelated matter does anyone know why people keep punching me? Its getting annoying now.
AIM4. I'm a CEO. be careful whom you annoy.
And of course Guardian readers, lol
"are about as meaningful as from a bloke with a rusty pick up sending a badly worded text on a PAYG phone to some poor sod he doorknocked and relieved of several grand cash - to say Brexit is causing problems with tarmac supply and the driveway won’t be done till next month.." - Joe Doe?