Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
HI Faramog, from the other day, sorry should have said $42.2
Cost of sales 108304
Selling and distribution costs 9270
Other mine operating costs 2723
Idle plant costs 6725
Administration expenses 20838
Finance costs 14140
Total 162000
Granted, some of the idle mine costs may disappear but I have excluded the loss on shared ventures to allow for this. On this basis the cost per unit is $42.2 per unit. I believe the $43.7, whilst it included the impairment cost, did not include any finance costs, but please correct me if wrong. Still looks like a breakeven scenario on current pricing given the impact of inflationary cost increases
Harchris, your statement " $41.4/kgV average realised price was very strong. So far in 2023 the average price achieved by the group is not too far off that." says a lot.
All in costs are $43.7/kgv - that's why it's in the mess it is.
Those mines will be worth the sum of diddly squat if it costs more to get the vanadium out of it than they can sell it for. With such thin margins (if any) at present no one would touch them with a barge pole.
Wake up and smell the coffee Pdub, at this rate you'll only be talking to yourself on the board! You've done nothing but praise the company all the way down from 48p, get a grip on reality & check the financials, they don't lie.
They can produce all they like but if the overall cost of production per unit is greater than the sales price achieved, it's only going to increase losses. How will they be funded?
Nah, he'll hold on until the bitter end, still saying operational progress is great
Harchris, do you believe the company is making profits at the current level of vanadium pricing given that the all in cost of production appears to be over $40?
No evidence of Fortune selling but he does have 4 business days to report it, so who knows?
How strange Pdub, I discussed costs yesterday but you chose to ignore as it didn't fit your agenda:
Hi Bushy, you are correct, it's the way it's laid out in the overview that muddles the issue: if I do a deeper analysis of the costs for last year (excluding impairment costs) I get:
Cost of sales 108304
Selling and distribution costs 9270
Other mine operating costs 2723
Idle plant costs 6725
Administration expenses 20838
Finance costs 14140
Total 162000
Granted, some of the idle mine costs may disappear but I have excluded the loss on shared ventures to allow for this. On this basis the cost per unit is $42.2 per unit. I believe the $43.7, whilst it included the impairment cost, did not include any finance costs, but please correct me if wrong. Still looks like a breakeven scenario on current pricing given the impact of inflationary cost increases.
Thanks Pdub, I won't have to listen to you denying the facts I post anymore.
Pdub, it's your unwillingness to discuss anything you might possibly conceive as negative that really annoys people, eg cash flow, production costs etc. You ignore anything that doesn't suit your agenda. All you can say is operational progress is good. We get it, but it isn't delivering the numbers.
Pdub, all I have done today is discuss facts eg cash flow, production costs etc. What is your issue with that? You claim to welcome discussion around these things, but it seems not when it doesn't suit your agenda.
Again, is this your only shareholding? I will answer your question about any holding I hav e when you do.
Pdub, to be honest I only post to balance your continued misplaced optimism with this share. You have continually bigged it up whilst all the time the share price is falling. What do you hope to gain by this? It annoys me to see people misled by reports of operational progress that lead to nowhere except increased losses and missed targets.
By the way, is this your only shareholding? If so I can understand why you are so desperate to try and see only the best in it. You have clearly sunk too much into it. I recommend spreading your investments around a bit more to alleviate the risk.
Of what relevance it is? I thought we were here to discuss Bushveld, which is exactly what I am doing with hard facts. What's the issue with that, I thought you welcomed good honest debate backed by facts?
I may have bought back in this morning but that would be telling....
Harchris, sadly it isn't as quite as straightforward as saying they only burnt $4m last year. They are many factors at play in the cash flow. for example, trade creditors increased from $28m to $40m over the year while trade debtors reduced from $6m to $3m, this looks like good cash flow management but may not be sustainable. Payments to suppliers may have have been held back at year end to make the cash position look more favourable. You can't just look at the cash position in isolation without looking at the variables behind it
Hi Bushy, you are correct, it's the way it's laid out in the overview that muddles the issue: if I do a deeper analysis of the costs for last year (excluding impairment costs) I get:
Cost of sales 108304
Selling and distribution costs 9270
Other mine operating costs 2723
Idle plant costs 6725
Administration expenses 20838
Finance costs 14140
Total 162000
Granted, some of the idle mine costs may disappear but I have excluded the loss on shared ventures to allow for this. On this basis the cost per unit is $42.2 per unit. I believe the $43.7, whilst it included the impairment cost, did not include any finance costs, but please correct me if wrong. Still looks like a breakeven scenario on current pricing given the impact of inflationary cost increases.
Hi Bushy, unfortunately the costs of $43.7 exclude the impairment charge. From the overview statement cost of sales was 108.3m, other operating costs & income 40.0m and admin costs of 20.0m totalling 168.3m - production was 3842t so this works out at the $43.7 - these costs do not include the impairment charge which is shown as a separate charge in the overview so I haven't included.
In my opinion it does look like they are going to struggle to get to breakeven in the current climate, this has probably led to the note about further funding being required.
Pdub, as Harchris doesn't seem to want to comment on the below, I was wondering if you might have any thoughts on the costs:
Harchris, you state that breakeven point should be approx $35.5 yet the accounts state the following "The Group cost per unit sold for the year (including sustaining capital expenditure) was US$43.7/kgV. "
I appreciate these are 2022 costs but if anything we are expecting an increase in costs this year. Could you rationalise your breakeven point please as it doesn't look correct to me, thanks.
Harchris, you state that breakeven point should be approx $35.5 yet the accounts state the following "The Group cost per unit sold for the year (including sustaining capital expenditure) was US$43.7/kgV. "
I appreciate these are 2022 costs but if anything we are expecting an increase in costs this year. Could you rationalise your breakeven point please as it doesn't look correct to me, thanks.