Member Info for toneman

In my experience it's only 'fun' while you're winning. Fun quickly drains away when the prices move against you. Before you realise it you end up with a whole load of long term holds that started life as an 'obvious' day trade. Best of luck though.

Glide, despite my default position of scepticism, I suspect the idea is that the hydrogen bonds to the new material under a certain temperature and pressure and then breaks those bonds at a different temperature and pressure - all being at a lower pressure than the 700bar of current hydrogen tanks for EVs. So technically you can get more hydrogen into that space because chemical bonds take up significantly less space than free hydrogen molecules under pressure. It's essentially the same reason why gasolene is a very dense hydrocarbon structure. But typically chemical bonds are very hard to break without extreme temperature/pressure/catalyst exposure. Maybe these researchers have found the holy grail. I do however remain sceptical.

I have to agree with PM44. Historically I would suggest this has not been a good day trade stock. It has made sudden leaps and often a long slow retracement. Last year's climate change focus on stocks gave a real boost from 20p. Read some of the forum posts - many people got out at 80p certain that it would go back down to 40p and watched it go all the way up to £1.20 in just a few days. Day trading on coronavirus is certainly a strategy, but if the factory fit out goes well and orders start coming in then my guess is you won't be seeing £1.20 again.

If anyone was still in any doubt about the potential here, this push for more electrolysers by Hydrogen Europe would be encouraging.

"This is an initiative of the European industry association Hydrogen Europe. The objective is to promote a massive increase of electrolyser production within the EU in order to support green hydrogen production.

80 GW is an arbitrary, but very substantial figure. It represents an investment of some 20 billion Euro in Europe into plants and materials and suppliers over the next 5-10 years. The significance of the split into 2 times 40 is that half of them should be deployed inside the EU and half in the Ukraine and Northern Africa, both perfect locations for the production of renewable energy. The green hydrogen produced there would then be imported into the EU."

If this were to happen and if ITM were to get a fair share of the business it would keep their new factory at full capacity for a decade.

https://www.hydrogen4climateaction.eu/2x40gw-initiative

and the report is here...

https://hydrogeneurope.eu/sites/default/files/Hydrogen%20Europe_2x40%20GW%20Green%20H2%20Initative%20Paper.pdf

I assume they are at least being paid through grant money for this feasibility study. It doesn't talk about actually building or delivering a system as part of the feasibility study. Let's hope the results from the study can convince the industrial customers that it's viable then we can start to fill the factory with actual orders.

omg. Night storage. Economy 7. Blast from the past. They were awful 30 years ago and can't be a much better bet today I should imagine.

They had zero control. And felt such a waste if the following daytime happened to be a warm day and last night's heat just trickled away anyway even making your room unbearably hot in the sunshine. Then by evening all the bricks heat was gone and you were left switching it to convection heater mode and using electricity anyway. Never again.

I have the same issue against water heater boilers. I put all that energy in to the cylinder. The heat drifts away whilst not in use. If I do want hot water in the kitchen it takes 30 seconds to come through by which time I've finished rinsing the plate and all I've managed to do is exchange cold water in the pipework for hot water in the pipework which just sits there going cold again. What a waste. I'm going to switch to local instant hot water as soon as this covid thing's gone and I can get an electrician in.

One would assume they've been sat on rather a large profit. Can't blame them for wanting to reduce some risk under the current circumstances.

My guess is it would have taken a month to offload that quantity which would tell us that the share price has been holding up rather well against that amount of selling...it all needs to be bought by somebody.

With this large sale out of the way we could really see what this share can do as that amount of buying has also been out there. Today's 7% gain should be a sign that the buyers are still there and could be a further indication of things to come. Fingers crossed.

I'm keeping the faith.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/mega-projects-help-double-green-hydrogen-pipeline-in-just-five-months

Last year, way before Covid, I was adamant that there couldn't be a global recession because that would have meant UK and others having to give up on any thoughts of net-zero carbon by 2050. That's because there's just so much stuff needing to be produced to meet 2050 targets (1000's of wind turbines, solar, electric cars/buses/trucks/trains/ships [all fuel-cell of course], hydrogen storage, gas boiler replacements, fuel stations [or charge points if we must]) and you simply can't have both a recession and all that production at the same time - one counteracts the other.

At the same time, many 'experts' were saying that a recession was coming simply because the markets were so highly priced...I certainly never heard a concrete justification as to a proposed cause of a recession - except for the fear of one.

As it turns out those people's predictions were correct, but certainly not for the reasons they believed...I can guarantee that none of those 'experts' saw a global virus pandemic shutting down global industry.

My point is - after this virus has been beaten we have to decide what sort of economy/industry carries on and where we go from here. I'm hopeful (and confident) that targets like 2050 will continue and climate change busting industries will still be top of the list. Even if it has to be heavily subsidised or driven by governments (in the event that the economy has been killed and needs a jump start), the requirements are still the same (1000's of wind turbines, solar, electric cars/buses/trucks/trains/ships [all fuel-cell of course], hydrogen storage, gas boiler replacements, fuel stations [or charge points if we must]) the virus-induced recession will be short-lived because it was created by government policy in order to control the virus - disappointing, but necessary.

The conclusion of my point is - a forward looking market ought not crucify (sorry poor taste) the new energy stocks and funds, but may well revert to selling banks, oil, travel, leisure, high street retail, etc, if a second wave of selling occurs. So I'd be inclined to hold on to ITM et al. rather than gamble with timing but there's nothing wrong with taking a profit as long as you accept the possibility of not putting it back in the market at a better price later.

Sorry for the rambling...got too much time on my hands...but then, who hasn't.

Colonel, I guess I meant 'enough justification' rather than 'understanding'. There's obviously not enough justification right now, evidenced by the fact that they do simply shut down the farms instead of choosing to generate something else instead.

The financial model is not quite right yet. They're still getting paid to stop generating, because the excess isn't enough to hurt...but it is enough to consider the next move. I'm not sure at the moment exactly who is driving the wind farm expansion. If it's private companies then I don't think we need worry. But if it's still governments in the driving seat with subsidies and permissions, etc, then we always run the risk that governments make the wrong call and stop expansion once electricity 'capacity' is reached rather than continue on to generate more stuff, i.e. hydrogen.

My latter argument there at least supports the latest news regarding generating hydrogen directly at the turbine and miss out the electricity step altogether. As we know there is already tons of demand for hydrogen in industry - we're not exactly relying on the electricity network for business. Gonna need another factory.

It's an interesting suggestion - local hydrogen generation in offshore wind turbines. But two things concern me...

The marine environment is so harsh I wonder if electrolysers are the right technology to be installed in that environment. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing a DC to AC generator/converter is a simpler beast.

And secondly, I suspect the mass understanding of the need to produce hydrogen from wind will come when the green energy generating capacity regularly exceeds the typical electricity demand. That model would seem to still require offshore wind to generate electricity rather than hydrogen, and instead only the excess generation would be converted to hydrogen. That points to a larger 'substation' model of electrolysis rather than the individual local hydrogen generator model proposed by the article.

Maybe the proposal is looking far into the future when we've already got excess green electricity production, in which case why not go straight to hydrogen. I would agree with that philosophy, and it would be great if they think we're close enough to be considering that already.

Hi 'ThisWeeksGuy'

We discussed exactly your point here a couple of months ago. Rather than rework the point here's a link to two discussions that I think you will find useful. Obviously the world has been thrown into a spin with C-19 which might affect the short term progress of the new factory. You'll have to judge for yourself any long term impact and whether you think the numbers discussed in the following threads have any merit.

https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?ShareTicker=ITM&share=Itm-Power&page=9&thread=80584301-C063-49EF-A957-EE6CEA5E00F1

https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?ShareTicker=ITM&share=Itm-Power&page=8&thread=9BA0F54D-14F0-4A9D-A968-03AD142D2092

Taverham, I agree about investment in general which was kind of my point, but if we give up on the specific investment in new energy solutions then the whole counter-climate-change targets (e.g. 2050) just completely die anyway. I'm not saying those targets can't simply be torn up, because they obviously can be, but it'll be interesting to hear what the scientific community says next when they realise their 'final' warnings have been ignored. Greta won't be happy...

There is certainly a lot of panic out there. Some of it is reasonably justified based on the uncertainty of what sort of hit Covid-19 is going to have on the wider market and consumer reaction. But the areas that I don't see how Covid-19 makes an impact are in windfarm expansion plans and a hydrogen-centric future energy policy. If I'm wrong perhaps someone can explain to me how Covid-19 stops us developing a carbon-free, green energy future, with hundreds of GigaWatts of hydrogen generation.

Apologies for the typo KayP...I'm a bit jet lagged this morning/afternoon.

KeyP, actually there is a very good reason for today's tick up. Hydrogen is the lead cover story in Moneyweek that landed on the shelves on Friday.

https://moneyweek.com/investments/commodities/energy/renewables/600889/hydrogen-the-cleaner-greener-fuel-that-will-power

Inside the magazine, after the cover story, has a box titled "Four ways to play the rise of hydrogen" which highlights CWR, ITM, MCPHY and SIE.

Sorrry Daltry, I didn't spot I'd mizzed an 'r'. I'll try harderer. I'm cheking this one karefully and I thinck it's ko so far.

Seriously though I'm pleased you managed to reduce your exposure. I know it's none of my business, but you still seemed a little angry with this share so I was concerned you had missed your opportunity again.

I still hold some, too. I still believe in hydrogen and fuel cell for the long term (10+ years). But this company like all the others will either be big or bust by then (unless bought out instead). Good luck though. You might get an opportunity to buy your shares back in the low 20's (or lower).

It's a funny way round to think about it, but I guess it doesn't matter who's going to put the excess electricity into Hydrogen. As long as they buy ITM electrolysers, I'm happy. I wonder what the trigger/instruction is to curtail windfarms? As long as EDF are provided with the same instruction then they can switch on the electrolysers.

So Daltry, did you forget to sell in the early 40's again? What's you next plan?

Hi MikeCC, I can also tell you that they are available to trade on the CMC Markets spread bet platform. Not really a long term hold platform...more for day trading and allows stock shorting, but it's there nonetheless. My LTH is through HL.