Member Info for TerryM1

One thing that could happen is SHED dispose of most of APIs assets (ones that don't fit) at NAV or close to NAV leaving just a few that are a good fit with SHED. This will be like liquidating API (at least most of it) and even if assets are sold below NAV will net a tidy sum as discount is 35%. I just made a decent sum on EPIC liquidation even though they sold the assets at around 10% discount to NAV and put some into API.

However part of me would like to see this go away so the SP can recover but I suspect even if this happens SHED will not be trusted not to do this again in the near future.

Kipper

"Observation: There are certain very nice people on here who do not seem to be able to separate 'wishful thinking' from reality"

Could not have put it better myself.

There seems to be a number of people (not just this board) who treat shares investments like fans of a local football club. No matter how much we want (I certainly do) or even believe the shares should be double, tripple, 10 times it makes no difference it is the institutions that count.

It is not what you think that counts, it is what they think.

Look decent and more or less as expected, good news is dividend increased to 2.05p

https://www.londonstockexchange.com/news-article/BBOX/dividend-declaration/16356708

I believe the share certificates are no longer valid, you will need to get you holding registered with a broker that trades these shares.

"I guess institutional investors pay 30% WHT so a SP drop of ~5% on ex-divi day is more appropriate than ~7%"

I would guess most pay 15%, I say this as I had to fill out a W-8BEN-E just recently for 2 companies I own (what a job, makes W-8BEN look simple) and this gives the companies 15% WHT, from the information I read most companies if in a country with a dual tax agreement will pay 15%.

Numeco 9350/9550

Unfortunately drop not done for this month

Still going down

Numerco 9400/9700

Was wondering why discount so high with YCA for last days, tempted to take some more but it did not feel right. Do some people know something I don't and had pre-knowledge of the fall.

Hi machin

If you look at the Oak Bloke

https://theoakbloke.substack.com/p/dec-imals-and-decibels

and

https://theoakbloke.substack.com/p/dec-imals-and-decibels

Which states

"For long-term DEC hands at a 10% of shareholders opting a tender, that’s $5m of divis saved, £0.40 of NAV added per share …. PLUS 90% of shareholders received a 31% yield at today’s price."

I understand this is the tender offer which is in effect a BB so the calculations for BBs are similar

The problem with the BBs is thay have been Anemic and Sporadic, I saw somewhere that only about 2% of the shares have been bought back against the 10% (max allocated) since I believe last June.

BBs reduce the amount paid in dividends and also greatly enhances the NAV as stated by Oak Bloke

Down again

Numerco 9800/10000

"Lloyds also have Citra - buying property for rental income"

Take a look at Home REIT and all the money they lost on Social housing, impossible to get the rent from some tenants and you can't evict them without huge costs and bad press. If you want to go into property buy warehouses, a shortage, best return and great rent collections. Social housing is a money pit.

"Near as damn it £30bn of PI's money on social housing"

That is the way with so many British companies the BOD think the companies money is for them to distribute as they like often on their own causes and themselves, shareholders should take what they are given and be happy.

Numerco 9900/10100

Jun_man

HL deduct 15% if you have a W-8BEN in ISA or trading as do AJ Bell, II, IAG and most other brokers, the exception are the banks or brokers associated with banks. IWEB, Halifax, Barclays, Fineco deduct the full 30%.

Davidspellac

This something I have thought about if not in a SIPP now there is no stamp duty. Turn dividends to capital gain or reduce capital loss and no WHT or additional UK dividends tax if in 40% bracket. Of course at the risk of SP changes but as you say you could gain.

However the company would pay the dividend just not to you.

The 2 things that concern me about the report is that the SP has been dropping so it may be leaking out as so often happens and the lack of figures in the last TU. CPI usually justify bad results using the old CPI tried and tested trick of one offs but people are seeing through that now so in the TU just said we are doing fine without any figures to back it up. This time round they will have to release the figures.

Come on CPI prove me wrong.

Not sure how the tender offer will play out with HMRC as you are taking an extra 5% instead of the dividend. I suspect they will regard this as tax avoidance especially as you have a choice and the extra 5%could well be taxed as a dividend. With Glencore there is a debate whether the capital repayment dividends are taxed as capital repayments or dividends, I think HRMC are now saying these are dividends.

Hi machin

"A passing remark, a script dividend would achieve the opposite aim, i.e. reducing number of shares via BB, as it would require the issuing of new shares, none are in treasury – all BB shares are cancelled."

As I said DEC could use the money saved from the script dividend to buy shares in the market and cancel these. This would move some shares to long term holders who want to increase their holding while keeping the number of shares the same. I would expect these holders would not loan their shares to shorters and are not day traders.

As I see it their a number of reasons for BBs.

When dividend is 30% and cost of borrowing 8%ish and likely to fall there are huge savings for DEC and as the Oak Bloke has stated greatly increases NAV. It does not take that long to pay of the borrowed money back with the dividend savings and then the savings are there for as long as there are dividends.

When funds are selling because of redemptions and ESG there is a need to soak up the excess shares to prevent share price falling, it is why a lot of the O&G companies are doing this, take a look at Shell and BP.

It takes control away from the shorters, at present they are in control, I want to see the shorters burned not the share holders.

Where else can DEC buy O&G assets cheaper than its own shares.

LOTM-13

"Are you serious ? ........"

""Dividend script issues" are part of the reason Shell & BP cost there shareholders $10's of billion's in lost value through the biggest legal ponzi scheme's invented!"

Just look at their share prices compared to DEC.

Wouldn't KAP have to buy on the spot market to make up the shortfall like Cameco have done. I guess this depends on the contract but if this is the case YCA could sell at spot to KAP to buy back a lot cheaper.