Member Info for scotalba

Well my man with had dog has been silent recently , or maybe he has been silenced. However, I do have good relations and an open channel l of communication with the people who matter at NRW via more conventional contacts, but that said they have all been very tight lipped for the last three months, and are not giving anything away in terms of timelines and progress on the permits. They are very aware of the discontent amongst the supports of Alba on how long this is all taking. I thinks its all down to the adverse bureaucratic systems at NRW, coupled with the staff shortages, the individuals at NRW in my experience are all very genuine people who would like to get things done faster and do support Alba.

After the application first appeared on the public register and then was removed a day or so later I asked NRW Wales why it had been removed, this was the reply I received..Make of it what you will....

"PAN-022870

Regarding your email below, referring to the permit referenced above, after discussing with our permitting consultations department on why the permit in question is not appearing on our public register I have been informed, the applicant has requested their application be treated as confidential as it contains business sensitive information. As a result the determining team have decided to up-hold their request for confidentiality and marked all documents as being either To Be Assed or Not Public Register."

So this is exactly the same form that appeared on the public register back in August, and then was removed from the public register, and now it has appeared again. Maybe a positive sign that is back on, or could just be NRW messing about. Lets hope it is a positive sign that news will be soon.

I know Alba have applied for a work over the winter permit, but don't know any details on what this permit would cover.

Sorry no news from me, I do still have open channels of communication with the people making the permit decisions, but am not getting any hint of when things may be sorted, apart from they hope to be decided withing the statuary time frames. The reasons for them taking so long just keeps coming back as short staffed, and backlog of applications.

The time frame was 3/4 months for the "variation" Standard on some NRW reply's is "Any requests will be passed on to the relevant officer who will respond as appropriate. Please note that due to staff shortage and increased workload this may take more time than usual"

A reminder.. the water abstraction variation license was submitted to NRW on 3rd August 2023.

I am not having much joy getting any more information from NRW on the permit applications, , but I have found out that rather than Alba being refused a "Temporary Abstraction license" in fact this option was never on the table as NRW has "no mechanism to implement a temporary Abstraction License" The only option for Alba was to apply for the variation on an existing Permit, and an Emergency Abstraction license. So I guess a misunderstanding between Alba and NRW about that Temporary Licensee application....... the wait continues

I received some info from the Species team, I asked them for any time frames, and also how complex the application was

They confirmed application is in the system. Said it is a complex amendment and sits within NRW 40 working day Service Level Agreement (SLA) target. Person could not comment on the application as not an ecologist and they will rely on other specialist to provide the ecological assessment. Also highlighted they are experiencing very high volumes of applications which are having an impact delivery time. The said as is usually the case if the application is complete and technically sound it will make the process of assessment easier for all concerned. We will of course do out utmost to deliver within our SLA commitments.

My contact at species, was very good, will see if I can get any info.

@Noobz The fact that Alba have applied for an extension to the EPL licence to allow them to work through the winter as GF said, is all I know. I have no other information on that subject.

I did have contact from NRW yesterday they are not giving anything away regarding a time frame for the new permits, only that they hope reach a conclusion within the statutory time frame. They are well aware of their shortfalls dealing with Alba's applications in the past and I am confident they are pushing this through as fast as they can, just a waiting game.

To change the subject, I think it is about 8 visible gold targets in level 4 of the shaft, now we are dewatered to level 3, once those permits arrive and we start dewatering, it will be a short while before we will have eyes on the Gold at last.

Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6qvC_QrGOU

Thanks for that link, nice update from GF.

@robbie, the timescale for formal variations on these permits would be 3 / 4 months , so anything ahead of that timescale would be very welcome and considered "fast tracking" I sure hope its much sooner than that. Lets hope NRW do Alba a favour this time, and get this over and done with quickly. My gut feeling is they are trying to get it done fast, but nothing concrete to go on right now.

I think NRW should be, and are now embarrassed by restricting Alba's abstraction/discharge volumes of rainwater from the flooded mine shafts into the river. Alba wanted a higher volume that would have counteracted any rainfall issues and NRW made a big mistake in not allowing this. My understanding of the situation now is that the temporary permit that was applied for and not granted, was refused only to allow the permanent variations in permits licenses to be granted more quickly. With Alba being allowed to undertake the emergency de watering to prevent damage to the completed works, this made the refusal of the temporary permit not so important. NRW seem so fragile that, applying for a temporary permit would have stopped any work on the permanent variation from happening, until the temporary one was issued, the wheels seem to turn so slowly at NRW, they are easily overwhelmed, very sad. So last weeks RNS was infact positive in my eyes as I do believe this scenario is the quickest and best way forward for Alba, and NRW and it was agreed between them as a solution to the problem at hand to produce in this way. This is my interpretation of the situation

I do have have direct contact with NRW water permitting team leader, who is aware of my thoughts on Alba's situation, and seems very amicable. They will not give me any indications of timelines for the permit license decisions but have kindly passed on my questions and comments to the Afron area team, who were responsible for the refusal of the temp permit. All this permit stuff seems overly complicated and involves multiple departments and teams at times. if i get any further information I will let you know.

@Acorns

Yes I just visited the Llechfraith mine site. I have never been up to the site you mention.

I do not think the river levels reached the Drainage Adit by the Steps, but from what I could see it was pretty close. Looking at the layout of it all, I don't think we need to worry it would ever get high enough to cause a problem. I thought the steel sheet may have been to make it harder for people to take large amounts of rocks out of the mine before Alba could safe proof it but don't know. about that.

From the drainage audit under the door the amount of water flow on average is average, was measured to be 4.7 m3/hour going into the river. For those who like the technical details.

From one of the big drainage culvert pipes just down from the mine, the amount of water flowing out into the river I would i estimate would have filled a wheelie bin in 1/2 a second , that is the best I can describe the rate of flow. This was excess water off the hills not from the mine, just to be clear. My visit reinforced how wrong NRW have been in being so hard on Alba for the water discharge permits. I do think they no this now. lets hope they put thing right quickly.

@SizeOfAcorns to answer your questions.

I actually went down the steep Steps...Yes I did also on my second visit when the water was lower, that is where the bat door is now. can be slippy on those iron stairs.

Did you notice the Pipes under the road that Drains into the river... I did notice drainage pipes from the higher ground going into the river, I assume these were drainage culverts for stormwater management don't think they were to do with our mine.

Dreaded meeting any Cars or Tractors on that Road... Just walked up the path by the river no driving up for me.

Did you visit the Clogau mines or too Wet to climb... Well I it was the Clogau mine I visited so yes?

Did you stay in Dolgellau, I hear that got flooded, no did not stay there, it seemed fine when I visited, but the flood water could have drained by the time I went.

Thank for your message.

Am back from my trip to Wales to check out our mine site it. I visited the site on two days last week. The first time was the day after the storm on Tuesday that had produced very heavy rainfall and high winds. The river that runs alongside the mine site was very high, several feet higher than I have ever seen it, it was raging, and was all whitewater for the 25 minute walk up to the site.

The mine site its self looked good and all in order. I could see the silt buster unit and a large pump on display in the mine yard. I could also see alot of very large and very old timbers, that had obviously come out of the mine shaft, they were very neatly piled up to one side. I did not see any people on the site, but a GMOW branded SUV was parked just outside the gates, and a white van , non de-script was parked inside the site with its door open. I was going to check out the lower drainage audit level 2, down the steep steps along side the river, but decided it was to dangerous due to the high water level and speed of the water. I went back again two days later, the river was much calmer by then, but was still flowing at a tremendous rate. This time I saw no activity on site and no vehicles. I did check out the level two drainage audit, water was flowing out of the entrance at a steady rate into the river. I also saw the bat exclusion door, and it looked good. I did go the offices at Dollgellau, it was about 4.45pm when I went and no one was around. Overall very happy with what I saw. Alba are keeping everything very neat and tidy, and the mine site is not a blot on the landscape at all, you would not know it was they until you came upon it and even then it just blends in with its surroundings.

Despite the hot weather, I bumped into our man with the dog this morning. He was not very chatty this morning, he just said that discussion are continuing with the local area team regarding activities at the site. I inferred from his friendly demeanor that things are going well, and I can also say that people who mater at NRW are fully aware that Alba, just want to pump a relatively small volume of some very clean water out of a mine at a slightly higher rate, and its not asking much much, considering what they have been through, and how long they had to wait for the original permits.