Member Info for RickEngland

Well exactly Martin Lewis must be making some sort of commission.

It's good though that Lewis suggests/implies a 'fair'commission should be acceptable. As stated before the Hopcraft v Cbg case amounted to just £183.60 whereas the fella v south African bank ran into £1'000's of commission. It was unfair they wrapped up three cases with huge differences in commission with the appeal.

I feel quite confident that cbg were responsible lenders and did only charge fair commissions (all were capped as stated within the accounts).

So where does that leave us? Just try to avoid noise and hold on and belive.

I'd like to think the chairman is discussing matters eith FCA (he has extensive skills with regulators, says the CB website). Can he push for a statement from the FCA that cbg acted fairly?

The only real question I have, is why aren't the directors buying a ton of cheap shares? Is there some rule limiting them to do so?

@karv1

Think of it from a commercial prospective. CB will be aware of their worst case exposure, however they state that they have followed FCA guidance therefore no liability exists. That's going to be your starting point.... nothing is due, therefore no provision is required. Which is exactly the approach cbg has taken (I.e. if you quote a number, the FCA will want it... even if they said "without prejudice").

OK the court of appeal stated in their opinion a lender has an obligation to state a commission exists. However thry didn't go as far to state the commission should be returned nor if such a commission should be returned in full. People jump to conclusions suggesting that redress. The court did not say return the commission.

Now bear in mind the FCA are still probing the industry to attempt to understand how it operates. Then they will likely make an announcement Dec 2025 if any redress is due. But remember this investigation originally came about gor those dealers adding £000's to loan. CBG capped all thier loans. I would assume redress risk, if any, I'd much lower. The FCA have not stated commissions are banned, but it is likely thry will announce a cap.

Add to this Barclays stating the FCA are out of scope. So in reality it is not as bad as some try to suggest. The fact the Jpcraft case only smounted to £183.60 commission makes me laugh at the absurdity. If anything those in charge (FCA+) are lacking leadership to allow the situation to deteriorate to this position.

I will continue to add, I struggle to accept the risks are as bad as the media promote. Please digest the accounts, tons of good info in there.

@isleworth, not quite.

Prior to 2016 CBMF operated an upward difference in charges "DIC" model. This allowed the dealer/broker full discretion over the rate and commission. Subject to a hard cap.

From 2016 CBMF introduced a downward scaled commission "DSM" which capped the interest and commission. This meant CBMF set the headline rate yo the customer, and the dealer could only reduce their commission.

From 2021 onwards CBMF introduced a Risk Adjusted pricing model. CB set the rate for thr customer based on risk profile. Dealer discretion was removed entirely.

Most importantly all models included a hard cap. All the above is stated with the last accounts.

There's only 150m shares. It's going to be hard to value the firm much lower. 3x p/e is pretty nuts. At twice the current sp is 6x p/e which is still insanely low.

Same..... watching with interest.

I work for a professional services firm, and people are their business. I have a really wondered if the global firm I work for might make an offer.

Trading experience tells me, the market wants an update on any potential revaluation of previous years accounts. It's more than likely this will happen. Which means historical Revenue has already been captured in recoverable cash.

People are expensive, especially in professional services. The salary bill will be insane. Let's say they are running at 1.6x multipler to charge out. How many people are idle?

My view is wait for the audit assessment. Any transfer of revenue to previous years will push this lower. I might play in 30's.

Nofear; depends what a dca actually means. If the finance company sets a cap and removes all broker 'discretion' (which CBG did). The appeal court ruling adds another dimension. If the commission wasn't included within the interest, who paid for it? If commission say £200 was paid by CBG as a separate trade arrangement outside of the loan. I.e. interest rate was not effected. Then cbg paid the commission due to the dealer not the car buyer.

I still believe this is way over blown, I've done a ton of due diligence. All it takes is for cbg to reinstate the dividend, even at a lower level to add confidence.

The loan industry have 2 choices moving forward. Refuse to lend to anyone that made a claim, or adjust future loan rates by say 0.5% to cover these historical costs. Nothing is free in the end.

That must be the economic growth Rachel Reeves was promoting. 🤣 it's all go a little ridiculous. Let's remember in the Hopcraft case the commission amount was £183.60

GBG capped all their commissions. This originally started to go after those firms/ dealers that added £1000's to people's car loans. It's a shame this is going to drag on another year, before the FCA even consider confirming any redress. I can't foresee the FCA banning all commissions, otherwise that will render too many brokers unemployed. It's likely the FCA will set a cap, which should leave us in the clear. Many firms are replying to claims with; their was a DCA on your loan, although this did not effect your interest rate.

Anyway if you can afford 15,000 shares that gives you 0.01% ownership in the bank 🤣

Sorry mobile typing and scrolling back to edit is a pain to navigate.

The problem is the lawyers wrapped up 3 cases in the appeal. I grtvis this guy was upset at £1650 commission or 25%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj7dy50p6vo

Our case hopcraft was just £183 commission paid yo the dealer separately (wasn't in the interest).

It's a complete joke we was refused appeal. But the fCA have indicated they would like yo share expertise, should the supreme court allow an appeal. Which is a polite way of saying. You need to hear us, please approve.

If this does fly tomorrow. Hold hold hold.

Force multiple auctions to push it higher.

Should be good £5 - £8 a share.

We can own this if we play as a team.

I can't upload the pdf. But can add few more details.

Item 29) On 10th Jan 2014 Miss Hopcraft signed a HP agreement for;

Car price £8,530 less £250 deposit = £8380 HP credit agreement. Monthly instalments £144.42. Then says fixed interest at 5.5% (12.3% APR). Total interest £2,452.42

Item 28) Miss Hopcraft told the judge that if she had known about the commission she would've shopped around. (Really for £183)

Item 27)...... it's unknown how the commission was calculated.

CB provided a copy of its term of business which advised of a commission.... but apparently this was 'retracted' whatever that implies?

I can't upload the pdf. I gu

A friend of mine sent me the appeal docs.

Turns out the CB commission to the dealer was just £183.26 (item 27 of docs)

Wow bringing a company to its knees for under £200. Appears to be separate transaction to the loan.

The irony is, it's supposed to be cars that lose a chunk of their value, when driven off the forecourt. Not shares in a profitable firm that supports the purchase of fast depreciating assets people desire. Haha.

Anyway we shouldn't be talking to potential claimants. Laura may well want another loan from cbg assuming she's not declined. We love good business. Laura may I suggest buying some cheap cbg shares, which could potentially earn you enough profit for a free car in a year from now. After all the claims are assessed as void, due to commissions paid separately to dealerships (outside of the loan agreement).

I'm actually more bullish today, after finding out commission paid was a separate transaction to the set interest rate. Therefore appears all claims are void.

Wait till the FCA state a 40% reduction in the value of your new car, once you drive it off the forecourt is totally "unfair", we're back dating this to when Henry Ford starting selling motors. Well....we're in ridiculous territory. 🤣🤣

Let's not tar CBG with the same brush. They "capped" all commissions, and set the interest rates in their latest model. As per the latest accounts.

I'm reading lots of comments on twitter with replies;

"We can confirm a fixed commission was paid to the retailer, and the interest rate on your loan was set by us, not the retailer.

Therefore we can reassure you that the commission had no impact on your interest rate. This matter is now closed".

Looks good to me, if that's a majority of letters being sent out.

I tend to smile at your comments landowner, although we are all the the same boat here. Everyone is nursing losses including you no doubt haha. I say we give cuddles where necessary, rather than sell me your cheap shares. Haha We need people to hold to keep these 150m shares locked in. Btw the other small bank "Secure Trust Bank" has only 19m shares in issue, if you want to buy the entire bank haha. I fancy 1000 of those but under £3 each. Similar p/e ratios too.

The FCA said today, that they have written to the Supreme court asking them to act quickly if they will allow permission to appeal. If permission is granted the FCA will consider intervening to share thier expertise.

That appears to me, as a polite request to allow an appeal as the FCA have valid views to contribute. In addition this suggests the FCA (and possible ministers) were not best pleased. Otherwise they wouldn't need their view taken into account.

SG911 just have a really good think before locking in a loss. I'm 33p down a share, which in the scheme of things is nothing, if we believe £3 a share is very cheap. It doesn't take much movement to bounce into a profit. I was £13k down on lloyds when they went to 26p during covid, but still believed the fundermentals justified holding and buying more.