Member Info for RickEngland

OK I'll leave it here coast. I'll admit don't understand the div process for spread bets, I'm not getting the explanation I need either to fully assess it either. LSE is a "share trading" site rather than a spread bet site. I fully understand shares and accounts, so I'm comfortable to comment. Good luck with your bets.

But your not telling us the other side of the trade. Even if you do get a cash credit one side spreadbetting, you should lose the otherwise. You can't invent free money from thin air just because it went ex-div. Someone has had to pay your £9500 payment. It didn't come directly from Lloyds that's for sure. So when your spread was adjusted to pay what you call a div, what was the impact on your bet? In other words did your bet lose £9500 to compensate?

If it was that easy we would all be buying spreads on ex div dates for every income share on the market. I simply do not believe its free cash. Exolan please both sides of the deal.

That's not a real div with sb. It's an adjusted spread. Since the sp will always fall on the ex-div date, the adjusted spread has no real benefit. Smoke and mirrors. I'll take the £1k+ real money on 13th thanks.

South Coast.

Share ownership is owning an asset (share owner owns part of the business). Daily share price movements do not effect level of ownership. Doesn't matter what the market considers that asset to be worth, only matters if an owner decides to sell. However s share owner can decide to hold their asset as long as they like, regardless of the sp before deciding to sell.

Betting on share price movements is pure gambling. You own nothing, have no shareholder rights, nor are entitled to dividends. There maybe limits on when you need to close positions. If the price goes against your bet, you can't simply leave it for 5 years and forget it.

With share ownership you're likely to be paid back your full total investment in c.15 years or less at current prices and still own the shares. Less than 10 years for me as my average buy is around 30p (excluding divs) . Already had 0.57p div and getting 0.67p div 13th Sept.

Own the horse or bet on the horse. Choices choices.

Even if the horse breaks its leg now and then, it repairs and comes back, has no planned death date either, already 100's of years old horse. If you could own a horse like that, you'd probably never sell it. Haha. Seems crazy to bet on it instead of owning it.

Rick

OK Darth. Right so he's running a spread not a share owner. So surely with the price dropping "double" that of the actual div, regardless if he got a credit on the spread, the drop in the sp probably wipes that out.

Personally I'd rather own the shares, I'm an investor not a gambler. Interesting stuff though, how all this spreadbetting works.

Thanks Rick

If you own a nominee account with a spread bet firm, that's fine. Just don't understand how any platform can afford to"advance" pay a div to their customers (on ex-div day) over a month advance (potential millions of cost) before they receive payment from the firm paying the div.

Lloyds don't release that payment until 13th Sept, and I've got a lloyds trading account.

If that's correct, I might be keen to get an account with IG. For advance payment of divs.

Somethings dodgy there, you don't get a div gambling on share price movements (spread betting). You only get a div if you own the asset, I.e. on the share register.

What are these spead betting firms doing then, paying a div out of their own pocket. Haha.

Maybe they could adjust the spread on ex-dov date, but it's not real cash. Funny stuff haha.

I don't watch shorting positions, although if GS did set a short on the day of they downgraded LLOY. Then surely that is market manipulation and they need a serious slap from gov regulators both sides of the pond.

Hey falky are you running a fantasy account that pays your div on the ex-div date? I don't get paid my div until 13th Sept, the actual payment date.

What grad did they have working all night on that analysis (for 95 hours hard slog). Their valuation doesn't even cover the banks net asset value.

Looks to me their view is banks are sitting on 100's billions of retail deposits, so GS think banks are desperate to convert that excess consumer liquidity into mortgage lending, so could drop mortgage rates to offset lower loans being sold. Depends who owns the deposits, I'm pretty sure that's people with decent houses already.

Doesn't make sense that on the back of BoE indicating rate rise is likely to come sooner rather than later. Even if right, smaller margin on a larger number is same profit.

Seems a weak argument to me, think someone is trying to justify those £100k salaries and had to put some news out. On ex-div day too, they knew the price would fall back anyway. Really poor I'd say.

Oh yeah thanks. What do you think is reasonable level of customers per screen a year?

I bought some cine yesterday. Waiting for my lloyds and natwest div in Sept to top-up more cine. So running some numbers.

They have 9500 cinemas right. If they get just 100 customers a day per site, that's 950,000 customers a day.
Let's say they spend £8 each, that's £7.6m revenue a day. Over say 300 days = £2.28bn revenue.

Don't know what the margin is after costs though.
Surely this firm is worth more than £860m market cap.

Cinema's are open. Misses went with the kids yesterday she said it was busy.

So I decided to have a little gamble on this share today. A heavily shorted stock implies to me that there's upside at some point. Even if the results on the 12th Aug represent previous closed periods, current trading is likely to be positive news. Anything better than we're completely closed is a plus.

Sure I read someone current liquidity assumes a complete closure until end of 2021. So I'm pretty relaxed, as they're open. Medium term buy and hold for me, watch and see.

Rick.

Reply to 18

"Narrow view", hardly; I topped up 100's thousands of shares when it sitting in the 20's and 30's, when most people were burying their heads in the sand, thinking it was the end if the world. In hindsight I should've gone for more risk for better rebound gains, but i favour financial stocks. Easy to make money clicking a few buttons for banks, low risk.

I certainly know what a bond is, or a gilt for that matter thanks. I don't do bonds especially in new economy growing cycle with likely falling bond prices and cr@p yields. Not for me thanks.

Anyhow higher interest rates is actually great for banks, especially if they fund lending on the pile of self funded cash the bank built up the last 10 years (instead of paying divs, due to basel2). But now it's time to reward shareholders.

Point is the bank is worth 55.6p a share tangible assets, post paying this div. They're sitting on CET1 of over 16.5% not including a ton of provision hidden away, they can afford to returns divs.

You can't compare an income stock with bonds or growth stocks. Lloyds will churn out billions a year of free cash flow, handing it back to shareholders is normal process. Hence why it has "income" followers. Growth is nice, but a tick along cash cow us fine by me.

I'm not one to put myself on a pedestal by belittling others, I tend to smile at wannable educated class-ists from my detached 4 bed house. I come from the era you were kicked out the door at 16, and told don't come back without some money to pay the family bills. Wisdom has value you know. Haha.

Bye for now. Rick

To 18.

Because Lloyds is a cash cow, income stock. Not an over inflated capital gain on low earnings tech stock. In other words dividends are expected to be paid and we want it.

Interesting numbers on page 5/126 of the report. £11.4bn insurance claims. Previous half year 1bn. But other income increased to 15bn last half year 0.3bn.

Dint understand that part of the business. But suggests massive earningss if claims are lower.

All the banks after the 2008 crash had to build a capital war chest. That took 10 years. Not including repairing their balance sheets, accounting PPI and any other punishments handed out for pre 2008 banking culture.

The only thing remaining to repair is shareholder value. Think I'm sitting on lloyds shares now that were valued well over £1m pre-2008. Obviously I didn't pay that, but someone did at some point time.

The irony is in my view is that banks are more safe now as an investment that at any previously time. It's not hard to make profit on self owned £bn's capital, that cost shareholders 10 years of decent divs previously.

I think we're turned a road now. If anything covid was another chance to strengthen balance sheets yet again. Lets face it, the gov/tax payer funded this covid crisis.

There's a culture shift too. New investors seem to favour hyped overvalued non profit making fin-techs, rather than banks earning millions a day. I'll just smile at that, and stick with profit earning firms. Crazy.

I'll go for 1.14p interim div. Plus 0.65p special div. Plus a £3bn share buyback.

Rick

If I was on the board I'd probably be feeling drunk of all that excess capital earning fees for free. Imagine the bank being 100% capitalised, you'd be saying "bring on those higher interest rates". You couldn't fail to earn decent margins. Even with current excess capital, the income off it must be decent.

I'd love to see a "big" buyback, considering the number of new shares lloyds issues "every" month. Think they're just under a billion shares in issue than pre-buyback in 2018. So the whole buy back in 2019 is almost wiped out now.

The bank will find it very hard to justify excess capital, even with obscene provisions. So I expect a decent div to be announced as well. I also reckon Charlie Nunn will want to lock-in his shares options first, before he starts improving shareholder value and returns.... what's the impact of that I wonder?

Whatever happens endvof July the bank is rolling in cash, some of it has got to come our way. We deserve it too. But I only own about 0.00018% of the bank so my voice doesn't count for much haha.

Rick.

Ps: besides unless all your money and assets are completely on the digital ledger, it's kind of pointless haha. The whole point of decentralisation is just that. No single nation can control it. I'm not a fan of crypto by the way. I own few poo tokens for laughs. But who's going to buy a coffee that one day is £1 tomorrow could be £20.