Member Info for Nanonano

I agree orders are key, else it's just a privately funded R&D experiment.

Careware is not the only commercial product they had, 42M TV's plus have used their IP, and they got something for it. Sadly wasn't what was hoped, but it is many millions and enough to keep the lights on for years ahead.

Seemed a strange thing to say that STMicro are the only customer they have when you listen to the webcasts.

STMicro are the nearest term customer, and some of the other customers may indeed drop in or out as time goes on. IIRC, late last year they had up to eight sensing customers, and now it is five, which is back to where it was earlier in 2022 I think.

I guess a few come in kick the tyres and say nope, we're going in a different direction.

Https://spectrum.ieee.org/eye-tracker-seethrough

I’ve seen plenty of ideas being mooted in various academic institutes, invisible sensors was the latest. However it can take years for it to go from lab to a product.

With the settlement, disappointing though the amount was, it does mean cash is no longer a worry for the company for years ahead, assuming they keep a sensible reign on costs.

My concerns with Nanoco tend to revolve around a few things

1. Will QD IR sensing gain a strong market share, against tech like SiGe.

2. What will be the potential profit from material sales, after all sensors use much less than screens. Prices are weighted differently, but how will that stack when competitors enter the arena.

3. Two key seeding patents expire within the next five years. One in 2025 the other on 2028. Will Nanoco be able to stay ahead of competitors who may seek to undercut the innovators?

Looking at the specs for prototype STMicro QD IR sensors, the QE and resolution is class leading.

Well let’s hope they have some good news for us on validation next week, I think today is the lowest close in over two years.

I saw an article that showed InAs and InSb as inferior in QE compared with PbS. Wish I could remember the link, it was a fairly recent article, within a year or so I think.

Haven’t seen any visibility of 2d materials, the presentation before the egm was the first time I’d seen the company mention any materials other than lead sulphide for sensors.

Regardless probably still a fair way away yet, so we need that contract with STMicro.

Many companies won’t entertain the use of materials restricted under ROHS.

There are a series of podcasts by Qustom Dot, one of where a couple of industry scientists are discussing QD IR sensors, and they say lead based dots are a non starter for many.

Perhaps Apple ware willing to wear it for a niche product. Or perhaps I’m totally wrong and the materials are not intended for Apple at all.

After the July presentation where the CTO clearly showed roadmaps for materials PbS, InAs and InSb, what gives you reason to think it’s something else intrusivethought?

I expect some will reply, more jam tomorrow, to which I’d say yes very much so.

It remains to be seen if they can get the contract with STMicro over the line, and if it’s subsequently shown to be sensors used in Vision Pro, then it will be interesting to see how that may influence the share value. Apple supply, even indirectly, carries a lot of kudos in the market.

Ddubya have you been listening to the updates over the past two or three years?

They’ve stated every time they’re working with multiple companies with multiple materials on IR sensing, last count was five companies, but it fluctuates as some companies decide not to continue, and sometimes others step in. However it’s STMicro which is closest to commercial volumes.

I’ve said before it looks unlikely the industry is unlikely to scale in a major way until lead free materials are wide available. In Nanoco’s case that looks two or three years away, when they expect to complete development of InAs material.

They've been working with STMicro since 2018, if it results in a contract in the next few weeks, that's six years.

I remember one of the co-inventers of the ARM processor saying that ARM was a forty year "overnight" success story.

So it's back to arguing about the settlement, which won't change anything, because it's done.

Can anyone here point to another Quantum dot company that has as many irons in the fire, and is as well-funded as Nanoco?

Can anyone point to another QD company that has more products on the market with their patented IP?

Why do you remain invested with such low confidence in the company?

I remained invested because I considered there is the possibility of real traction in sensor materials.

The delays and lack of updates are frustrating, but the inference here is that he company will never make it.

Sustained growth is the only thing that was ever going to underpin the share price. Anything else is just a speculative bubble, which eventually pops if the business fails to appear.

I don’t want to see the goal posts moved again, as they’ve already been shifted three times, and it’s starting to wear a bit thin.

I think some of the communication, e.g. multiples of market cap for a modest settlement, was overblown, and the CEO deserved some criticism for that IMO, whether he wishes to acknowledge it or not. I think in other aspects with regards to commercialisation the communications have been as accurate as anyone could expect, and any delays have been totally outside of the company’s control.

I think the settlement was transformative though, if simply because it puts the company in a stable financial position for the foreseeable future, and will hopefully enable them to build a market for their IP inclusive off but beyond display, without having to rely on fundraising in the markets, especially during this time of economic instability.

In addition, Nanoco is a much smaller company than it was under ME’s tenure. The company was absolutely blowing through cash a few years back, £12m a year, with little incoming revenue. The CTO admitted they were trying to do too much back then, but I guess they were throwing a lot at the wall to see what stuck. It’s amazing the company has survived to the present under the circumstances.

To get the share price back into sensible territory is going to require a contract. The secrecy surrounding who it is and what it’s potentially for does not help investors confidence. Past disappointment’s plus the lower than expected settlement just add to a bearish view.

I think RG and LOAM simply saw an opportunity to sell off their holdings, as speculation on the Samsung case created greater liquidity in the share. In the case of LOAM at least they’ve retained a considerable stake in the company, and increased it slightly post settlement, as did Tariq Hamoodi despite his negative opinion of the company management and settlement.

If you look at some of the investments LOAM and RG made in IQE and wan disco since selling down Nanoco, you can see they’re hardly clairvoyant.

Back in 2019, investors were of the opinion we wouldn’t see a penny from Samsung, as we were completely unaware they’d nicked the IP.

For most investors, display was dead in the water, and Apple had pulled the plug so no idea of where or when future revenue might come from, yet they still valued the company higher than now.

It’s incorrect to say they got zero, they didn’t get what was hoped for, and of course they had to pay a hefty fee for the funding but they got something and it’s more cash than the company has ever seen.

It’s less than cash now, so actually negative.

Now we have to see if this sensing contract comes to fruition.

…kicked in, the company being valued at zero.

Strange to demonstrate such indifference towards a company you’re invested in.

I understand the disappointment in the outcome of the Samsung settlement, and the present share price seems to reflect the markets sentiment too.

An odd situation, I don’t recall even in the darkest hours after the Apple contract was cancelled or when the pandemic first

Could also be accelerated. Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible. The VR/AR industry is definitely hotting up, and if it transpires that Apple are using QD sensors to get that extra precise eye and hand tracking that early reviewers have described as the closest thing to magic they’ve experienced, then we should see a few other companies getting on board. Meta are a clear contender, and that could really be a big deal, as the price level of their sets mean they will shift a lot more units.

Sadly all speculative until we get a first contract, so I’m hoping Brian has some good news for us on Tuesday.

I can only recall a single RNS regarding the Asian customer.

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/NANO/development-agreement-q1kwk86uofwwb2k.html

Pretty unambiguous description. I believe in the various updates since then they’ve referred to the, as supplying to electronics industry, but are a chemicals company, it it means sifting through several webcasts to confirm all the details, which I’m not overly keen on doing. I think it’s clear any business from them is still some way off if it happens at all.

Near tern focus is on the European customer STMicro.

To temper that, worthwhile remembering that Nanoco have been partnered with Samsung, LG, Dow, Merck, Apple (we believe) etc. and to date no contracts, although business was finally done with Samsung, belatedly and at great cost.

Let’s hope Nanoco have better luck with sensor materials.

Don’t think it would be Sony. The company was described as a very significant chemical manufacturer, and Sony are regarded as primarily an electronics manufacturer like STMicro.