Member Info for Nanonano

Seem to be an awful lot of remarks being thrown around about information leaks and the former CEO. Got any evidence to back that up? Bearing in mind Nanoco were working with many OEM’s years ago, there’d have been plenty of ways for information to be passed on. Dow employees would have been a prime source. Factory right next door to Samsung, an employee or two passed over for promotion etc. As much or more information would have been shared with Dow than Samsung.

At the end of the day much in business is taken in trust, which is why when big business decides to steal it’s so disgusting, as they always have the upper hand when it comes to fighting challenges to IP theft in court.

They all seem to be from a user experience at present, think we’ll have to wait a bit for someone to take one apart, after sounds like they’ll likely destroy it in the process. Official sales start 2nd Feb, so we may get to see the guts of the device sometime next week perhaps. Apple won’t be able to remain secret squirrel indefinitely once the device is out in the field.

Lots of Vision Pro reviews have gone on YouTube for those interested. Pundits clearly got a couple of days ahead of the posse.

Sorry that reads like double dutch.

That should read Qurv rather than Quran but my auto correct intervened!

A company can’t preserve anything if it’s bust. So money is critical.

I don’t think full details of the license agreement have been published, probably subject to NDA. However, from some details given, I understand that Samsung are only licensed to use the QD seeding patents in display, and their displays only. That extends to the screens they sell to third parties like Sony, but they have to make the display, they’re not licensed to sell QD’s to every Tom, Dick and Harry, and neither are Hansol, who, I expect make them in name only.

The generation 1 sensing materials do not use the seeding patents, and Nanoco have been candid that the material is not exclusive to the company. However they claim to have a lot of confidential IP which is not ubiquitous that makes using it much easier in mass production.

Gen 2 materials do need seeding patents, I suppose it’s possible Samsung may try and repeat their infringement as they did with display, there may be others already doing so.

Potential competitors? A few off the top of my head.

Quantum Science ltd

Nanosys/shoei.

Quantum solutions,

Ubiqd

Dotz nano

Quran

Nanjing

TG2D, cash for two years would not allow Nanoco to proceed without a fund raise mid 2024, unless they had sufficient revenue from elsewhere. You have no way of knowing whether a fund raise, at whatever cost, would have been successful either.

Pursuing a "sh*t or bust"strategy solely on a potential Samsung win is hugely risky enterprise and frankly irresponsible.

Even with cash from the settlement and the pipeline for sensor materials, this company may still not make it- plenty of competitors snapping at the heels. However they don't seem to have the same level of funding and appear some years behind Nanoco in having commercial materials ready for sensing at least. We'll see.

I believe that the delay in organic sensor business heavily influenced the board to agree to a low settlement with Samsung. Back in late 2022, the company was still guiding orders for early 2023, and that arrived a year late, even then the scope of the order was reduced, as Nanoco was indicating such an order should get the company to break even. Now they're looking at break even 2025- and that's still a maybe.

Had it gone to court, a win in Texas was likely to be substantial and Samsung would have almost certainly appealed, and used every tactic to undermine the verdict. The funders may have been contractually bound to see any legal action through, but funding the operations of Nanoco is not their concern.

If the company was still duking it out in court (very likely), with inflationary costs, plus a delayed and lower than anticipated production order, I believe the company would have needed to raise cash. Added to that, the company would not be able to take on staff or invest in R&D, falling further behind competitors.

Therefore the strategic position seems to be to take a lower cash offer from Samsung, and preserve the organic business for future growth. Remains to be seen if that strategy works, at present it's still early days, and plenty can go wrong.

"Maybe they use Daz to clean up their image"

Low temperatures will help the CFQD's bring them out whiter than white.

AVP is actually a huge loss maker for Apple at this stage. North of $20bn was an estimate I've seen, so they'll need to sell tens of millions of devices before they're even at breakeven.

Nanoco are not going to release details of how much they charge for their dots. Investors have asked many times and the answer is always the same- commercially sensitive information.

TG2D, how much understanding do you have of the cost of components in the electronic supply industry?

STMicros IR sensors cost just a few dollars each, that's with a profit and for just one. In a volume of millions the price drops significantly. QD's are sold as an inexpensive addition to the unenhanced sensor.

I expect a good chunk of that 353grams is accounted for by the fancy aluminium enclosure they wrap it up in.

I think part of the reason they've gone for a separate pack is to get users used to the idea of carrying a separate device. When (if?) Apple glasses appear, I think they'll need to be used with a separate processor, most likely an iphone.

Weight is a key complaint of the AVP. Apple love their billet machined aluminium cases and glass fronts to get that premium look, but each of those materials is three times the density of most plastics.

In comparison the Quest 3 weighs 515grams, and that's with an integrated battery that accounts for 69 grams.

Tender Offer at 28p doesn't help those tyat bought into the placing last year at 37p."

Cash raise was in 2022.

Nanosys/Shoei supplied the dots.

"Nanonano are you expecting someone to do a teardown in the first week after release?"

Sure. Whether details will extend to chip level, we'll have to see. Always see teardowns for any product released from Apple. iphone 15 for instance- https://www.ifixit.com/News/82867/iphone-15-teardown-reveals-software-lockdown

Perhaps in terms of processing, but the software is not the same. That's what is going to take time to scale, and yet companies may be reticent to develop apps until the device catches on -chicken and egg.

Still don't know if it's using STMicro sensors, perhaps we'll find out in a week or so.

What you mean by clearly outlined?

There's a rather large difference between a small box of sample volumes of a product for R&D and the volumes of materials required for manufacturing. You only have to follow the RNS's through from 2020 to realise the order was certainly to STMicro.

Fairly typical really. Keen to put out information when agreements are signed but not so great at following things up when they're quietly dropped.