Member Info for Nanonano

"He’s into hurling"

Before or after a long session?

Really?

Is BT going to do a conference call in the altogether wearing a Vision Pro and a hockey stick to preserve his modesty?

Do the board have any choice? If they row back on their statements now, they’re going to damage investor confidence further, and could leave board vulnerable to a second challenge.

If the share price plunges, it plunges, but should grow if they meet their own expectations of increased commercialisation, which has commenced albeit at a lower scale.

A diminished share price a problem for those wishing to liquidate their holding or if the company needs to raise cash- the latter shouldn’t be an issue for the foreseeable. The former may raise further calls for the board to step aside.

The company needs to give more information about the commercial order, or add a second string to their bow. The stealth mode is hurting shareholders and the confidence of new investors.

Sorry hit the wrong button.

I meant to finish that they wish to offer all investors the best solution for their personal requirements. Whether that materialises in practice remains to be seen.

They’ve also said they were looking at ways in which investors that wanted cash rather than equity and vice versa could be offered a choice.

I don’t know if that’ll prove difficult or straightforward, but it does suggest they want to offer all investors to

The question of whether there’ll be distribution of cash seems pointless. It’s been stated on numerous reports and RNS’s, so they can’t just turn around and say they were kidding or it was a third party calculation.

It has to be within the amounts specified, and I think it’ll need to be at or near to £40m rather than £33m unless they have a very good reason for retaining that extra £7m, because they say they have the equipment and personal to service £120m worth of materials per annum, and at present that capacity is barely on tickover.

Don’t know if it’ll be this month or next. They said we should get an announcement of the method of return shortly/soon, the actual return was stated as early 2024. I would think anything much beyond March or early April would be pushing it for that description.

It seems the be the most likely application. Plus the constantly shifting timetable during 2022-23 aligned with Apple’s delay in getting this gadget to the market.

Some have thought it automotive, I honestly don’t think that, for a start I don’t think they’d be that secretive about supply, and secondly Nanoco themselves have stated that lead sulphide dots have a lower heat sensitivity than is desirable in the automotive sector, so gen 2 materials are regarded as more acceptable.

“possibly why the tear down stopped right there...."oh look another eye tracking sensor"..”

If we apply that logic why point out very generic power management ic’s and other run of the mill stuff inside? I could be wrong, but I think there’s probably an agenda to conceal some information, but we’ll see I guess.

Just because something is at a preview or sampling stage doesn’t mean a company hasn’t got an advance order ahead of the pack. TSMC don’t make their 2 and 3nm foundries available to everyone, you have to lay down some serious cash to eat at that table.

Well it’s just a hunch. I think the sensors are a large part of what gives the AVP an edge over rivals, and it needs and edge when it costs what it does. The software/OS is extremely polished too, but the rest of the hardware looks fairly generic. The displays are touted as special, and they are, but they’re more a refinement of existing tech than something genuinely fresh. Sadly they add a huge amount of cost to the device.

Not sure if you’re aware but Apple have been ahead of the curve with their M class silicone for a while now, but this year things are really hotting up. Qualcomm purchased a small startup called Nuvia three years ago for $1.1bn, which is a chunk of cash for a company that had yet to release a product. They have some pretty clever cpu designs which give Apple devices a run for their money and are coming to market this year and will certainly find their way into ar/vr devices amongst others.

So for Apple to stand out they need a few angles to stay ahead of the pack. Sensors is one angle.

Agree bonzoful. Without future revenue a one time payment will simply diminish company value. Nanoco have guided they expect sensor revenue to gradually grow, with the expectation of breakeven next year, but that this could arrive sooner subject to further orders and of course they have the capacity to service this.

The company has not stated the costing or quantity of dots per sensor, as they state it’s commercially sensitive. They have given some generic costings like a smartphone contract potentially worth £20m+ per annum for circa 100m handsets.

They have said that the sensor materials costing is very different from display. I would expect the density of dots on the sensor to be high as it’s being used to fully filter a specific infrared band, but obviously sensors are tiny compared with large displays.

Some sensors would be bigger than others, so that would influence quantity, also I’ve seen sensors which are incorporating infrared RGB with infrared in some of the pixels, and also screen technology which going down a similar route which would potentially allow finger print and Face ID using the whole of a smartphone display rather than specific spot or notch.

Eye and hand gesture control is not unique to the VP. It’s been incorporated in quest models and from companies like Tobii too, and without requiring QD enhanced sensors AFAIK. It’s just particularly well done in the VP. How much of that is down to the sensors and/or software algorithms is speculative.

Perhaps of greater importance is the tech used for Optic ID, Apple patents suggest the use of NIR, but I believe SWIR may be more appropriate as it’s very much more eye safe at certain frequencies, and one of the materials shipped was in the SWIR bandwidth.

Only couple of ways of getting a sensor to operate in the SWIR band effectively, and only one which is cheap enough for a consumer product.

Also sites that carry out teardowns like ifixit benefit hugely from maintaining a cordial relationship with manufacturers, so not a stretch of imagination to think that maybe a word in an ear or two about overlooking certain parts of a device or at least delaying publication for a few months.

I wouldn’t expect them to forensically analyse the insides of the sensors. That would require some serious know-how and specialised equipment to carry out in any meaningful way, but chips tend to have some printed identification on them carried out by the manufacturer, and that has not been listed like other chips in the device. Perhaps there will be some further information when certain STMicro sensor chips enter the market from the sampling stage sometime in March.

If it turns out to be the case these sensors are using Nanoco tech, and are being used in the AVP, then it’s not a stretch to consider that Meta will likely use these sensors in a future Quest model. That would be significant for Nanoco, as Meta sell many more Quests than Apple sell VP’s.

Still a much lower volume than handsets, but it could quickly push the company to break even or, be still my beating heart, perhaps a profit.

I think a total absence of information about the product the commercial order is being used in is a serious impediment to the share price.

In the media, there’s been silence on the sensor tech used in the Apple Vision Pro. The sites devoted to dismantling these gadgets have detailed just about every part of this device, except for the sensors- which gets my antennae twitching. Have Apple put out a D notice on that aspect of the device?

Until we get some evidence of a link with a significant third party like Apple- all assuming it is- or a significant order that puts the company on a sure footing for future growth e.g. at least break even, I can’t see the share price doing anything special.

If you look back on some of my past posts, you’ll see I suggested waiting until commercial orders arrived before making any judgement on the company direction. Well orders have been in for some months now, although he share price has picked up a bit from where it was, it’s hardly a recovery. We’ll have to wait and see what happens once they let us know about this return of cash.

Without an improvement in information of where this product is being used, through official channels or a third party leak, then it doesn't look like we'll see any growth in this share price beyond a larger order or some other business in display. The latter seems to gone rather quiet, which doesn't bode well in my experience with this outfit.

"My guess is Samsungs negotiators looked at what the people who funded Nanocos case had done before. And with hindsight that is what others should have done as well. It will be the funders who decided to settle."

Would Samsung know who was funding the case? Certainly investors were not informed of who it was until after the settlement had been agreed. Also suggesting the funders decided the outcome directly contradicts the CEO's statement that the funders did not influence when or how the case was settled. Whether you choose to believe that is down to preference, but it relates back to trust.

I'm busy. See you next tuesday.