Member Info for mountainous

Sounds interesting @HNS - I enjoy having a small portion of my portfolio in high risk, high potential companies like that.

Just taking it slow and steady now, vast majority of my portfolio is reliably profitable companies.

@BlueBuxton - good morning. Indeed, there will be many of us who refuse to take our custom to CINE anymore.

Some great advice from HNS there, I hope it helps you in your pursuit for work. Extremely frustrating how some here have been bankrupted and meanwhile an already rich Mooky is getting paid off even more.

Good morning @HNS - are you invested in CRSP by any chance?

@HNS - welcome back, it’s nice to hear from you again. Hope you’re keeping well.

Indeed, a very unfortunate turn of events. BOD interests are out of the window and it is everyone for themselves. Unfortunately we can only salvage the scraps that remain of our investments.

I hope that something turns around for the other holders. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens frequently on the stock market. Less so the BOD running away smelling of roses with a nice payout. I used to be in EVE, one day they just announced suspension then administration and not even 3 hours later the whole company had been sold off to a new company and the deal was sealed. Shareholders wiped out and a different company came out of the bushes to pick it up on the cheap, like a vulture. Same thing happening here, except it is lenders that are taking the company on the cheap. There is obviously some meat left on the bone in CINE, because otherwise this would have been a standard administration story.

@BlueBuxton - I don’t think HSBC and Barclays are shareholders here? All the institutional shareholders we had ran well away when CINE started warning of wipeout last year.

As for all the other BOD members who aren’t getting a payout, I wonder if perhaps Mooky had stabbed them in the back too. It makes no sense to me how 4 members are getting a payout, and the rest are getting nothing.

In terms of our custom at CINE, I haven’t been there since the announcement last year of potential C11, and I haven’t renewed my membership either. No point, all the money was headed direct into the lender’s and BOD pockets.

How desperate do you have to be. Look at the FT article:

“During bankruptcy negotiations the Greidingers pushed to be granted a shareholding in the newly formed entity under management incentive plans through which the new board can be granted equity-based awards. However, the lenders, which include US asset managers such as Invesco and Eaton Vance, refused.”

So not only did they arrange an exit payout, but they put their beaks even further in and sought to get shares in the new co after CINE emerges from C11? Can you imagine? So you destroy the first company and then you get a second shot at it and demolish everyone else’s investments? Is he ok? Like a vulture, they sit there and wait for it to die and already have arrangements in place to cushion their own fall.

Would be fantastic if, once all of this is over, the lenders just leave them all high and dry with no payment and no advisory role. Let them suffer the same fate we all have here. Complete rats…

@BlueBuxton - awfully sorry to hear this.

The economic climate is such that it is quite difficult to get a job now. I’m hopeful that you’ll be able to find employment soon.

Indeed, it is extremely difficult to recover loss if you have no income flowing in. It is just disgusting that Mooky and other top execs will get a nice exit payout for running the company into the ground, and meanwhile the rest of us will likely be thoroughly wiped out. In my view, what has probably happened is that the lenders decided to pay off Mooky and execs to make it nice and easy for them to take control of the business from the inside. A sell out essentially.

As you can see, no difficulty or challenge at all from the current BOD, you would have thought that with a wipeout event on the horizon, the BOD would be working hard night and day to avoid it, instead they all look ready to push this through asap so they can get their money.

Remember when Mooky said ‘we are all in this together’ at the AGM back last year @BlueBuxton? Would love to receive our share of the exit payout if we’re all in this together…

@super_jeff - welcome to LSE.

So sorry to hear this. A lot of people here have lost a lot of money.

Remember that your money is replaceable, and it is your health and well-being that matters. I don’t know at what stage you are in your investing journey, but there is always a chance to recoup the loss elsewhere. Don’t lose hope.

@CWWX - I’m the same. I don’t have an SIPP, but I didn’t want to see it there in my portfolio for many years until the equity settles. That’s why I sold despite being down 98% circa.

Good luck to the group of shareholders who are attempting to form the committee. Sad to hear it has been rejected, but it is amazing that they have come this far. I have never seen that before, every time a company falls into trouble like that you always get the people who say ‘we are going to fight’ for recovery, but I have never seen it go this far up to a judge.

I hope they manage to get the counter in and a valuation. Presumably they’ll need to go to an independent entity to get the valuation. All the info is out there in the dockets, so it could just be a case of getting someone with financial expertise to give a good, honest valuation.

@Hexam - thank you for your kind words, and also thank you for your contribution here. Always informative and to the point.

You’ll hopefully see me here and there on the BOO board :)

Likewise @BlueBuxton - it has been quite the journey :)

Hopefully you recover and what has happened here will be a distant memory in the future.

Hello all,

I have decided to sell the entirety of my shareholding. Mainly because it is widely anticipated that this is going to be suspended at any time, and I would prefer to get the loss out of my portfolio and get started with the recovery. If I see any hope of the shareholder committee succeeding, I may reconsider. However, as things stand right now, I feel the best thing for me to do is to sell off.

It has been a journey of ups and downs with all of the LTHs over the past 2 years, and it is sad to see it end this way. I wish we could have all seen success here, but unfortunately this one was not a winner for us.

I hope to see some of you around the site on other boards, as we all seek other (hopefully better) investments.

Keep well, stay safe, and all the best.

This is confusing.

So let’s say in the best case scenario, CINE doesn’t get suspended and avoids administration and in the meantime, the shareholder’s committee goes in front of the judge to lay their case out.

What are they/their lawyers planning to say? How are people anticipating that the judge would say ‘yes, great shareholders get compensated’ when it has been the case for so many years that CINE had negative shareholder equity (more debt than assets)? Moreover, the debt is still there! What happens to the debt, it cannot just be that shareholders get a payout and then the lenders are just left out to dry. In any case, I would expect CINE and the court to side with the lenders.

@Hexam - nice to hear from you again too.

Thanks for your input. So if this is the case, why are we hearing rumours of the company going into administration this week? I remember when the rumours were first flying about C11 in the news and we were all pointing the finger saying ‘how could they know that’ etc etc and then at the exact time that the reports were saying, CINE filed for C11. So why shouldn’t we believe them this time?

CINE’s interest expense, especially considering all the additional financing they have taken to fund the C11 process, might have consumed a lot of that money? What are your thoughts on that?

@BlueBuxton, nice to hear from you again. Hope you’re good.

I would like to find out some more about the formation of a committee and the arrangement with the law firm before getting involved. Who and how are these lawyers getting paid, presumably they are not doing this on a no win no fee basis?

And what case do shareholders have? Company took on too much debt, and we all took the risk knowing full well that this debt was there. When you invest in a company’s equity, you do so at your own risk with the full knowledge (especially considering that CINE was on going concern status for years) that the company could fold, so our case looks extremely weak surely? Perhaps you could inform me more about that?

@WarrenBurret - yes, I acknowledge that I have very little knowledge of the matter.

Thanks for the information you posted there, I’m most interested in point 6. I am aware of the existence of this committee and the law firm, but what are our chances there? When you invest in a company, you don’t only invest in the profit side, you invest in the whole thing, including the debt side. This sort of thing happens all the time, no? I would be interested in hearing the process involved there before signing up to it. Could you enlighten me a bit more on that?

Because the market is closed at the moment @patiencebringsit.

I have been a LTH since 2021, it is quite upsetting to see the company end like this. Not only did I invest money here, but time in researching and believing in the company, just for it all to go to zero and the CEO perhaps running out with a payout.

Either way, I take it as a lesson and move forward. Apologies for the negative sentiment, and I wish you all the best.

So essentially, even if there was something for us after the end of C11 (which was extremely unlikely in itself), we shareholders won’t even see the end of C11 because of administration.

This is looking increasingly to be an absolute zero for sure. Not even a chance of any recovery. Sure, CINE warned us before, but now there is surely no way.

All imo.

Just realised that the DIP financing is probably the issue. It is not enough to bring CINE to the 28th as @maidit has mentioned earlier. So their one and only choice is to put the company in administration because not only have they defaulted on their debt obligations (the reason why we are in C11) but there is now not even enough money to keep the thing afloat. So they are probably appointing administrators before the end of C11 to give control to the lenders earlier, because the company cannot survive.

Already Wednesday today, so if the news articles are correct, as they were with C11, then it could just be tomorrow because they said ‘by the end of the week’, so presumably by Friday they’ll do it.

After realising the potential that they probably have absolute zero money by this point, I wouldn’t be surprised one bit to see this thing suspended tomorrow. All the best to everyone.

@iParsnip, I’m the same. You never knew what is around the corner. However, with lenders now in possession of an extremely favourable deal which gives them full control of the company, and Mooky rumoured to get a nice payout once it’s all done, I don’t see how this ends well for us LTHs.

I have seen on KROLL that the combined hearing date is 28th June, presumably that is when the judge rules on the deal. So then why is CINE appointing administrators for this week?

The one and only chance is if the judge rejects the proposed restructuring agreement. I see that many shareholders have sent letters direct to the court to inform them that they believe it is unfair, but will the judge really look on that favourably? His job is to protect jobs and the lenders isn’t it? I have also heard that the judge has already said in some form that there will be zero to shareholders, so the 28th June will just be a formality and the real fate is already sealed?

I have not followed the process of the bankruptcy at all, already written this off as a zero. All imo.