Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
Hi big_CHENGUS,
You say:-
"Historically anything sub 1500p is a bargain for long term holders. Dividend isn't bad at 5-6%.".
I admire your enthusiasm, but would like to inject some realism.
I hope you're aware that SSE announced nearly a year ago that as part of its strategy it will be "re-basing" (ie lowering!) its dividend to 60p in year 23/24. See their RNS announcement of 17 Nov 2021, "Net Zero Acceleration Programme". To then still get a 6% yield the share price would have to fall to about £10. That factor has been discussed widely on this board over the last few months. Furthermore, we have the cloud on the horizon as to what will be the Government's final proposal regarding "reform of the energy market", with talk of energy price capping even for renewable generators, such as decoupling prices for renewable-generated electricity from gas prices. Then you have the increasing cost of servicing debts with the rises in interest rates. And you have uncertainty as to what will be the political priority regarding "green energy" vis-a-vis further investment in fossil fuels, with a government where one doesn't know who will be in place from one day to the next, as we have seen today!
All that said, I have had a holding in SSE for nearly 20 years, and it has been one of my best long-term share investments.
All the best, Mike.
All,
Someone on the LLOY board has just said that ii has introduced live prices, and the "hiccup" maybe because of that.
I'm not sure whether that's the case - last time I looked at the prices in the relevant display I think it said that they were 15 minutes (or was it 20 minutes?) delayed, but I can't remember how long ago that was.
Anyway, glad if the problem's now fixed.
Mike.
meoryou,
"Onward and Upwards".
Indeed. There certainly seems to be a lot of "Upwards" so far today not only in BP but in the wider market. Let's hope that euphoria is there for a good reason and can be sustained (unless one was planning on buying shares today, of course...).
ATB, Mike.
spights, meoryou,
Yes, I was alarmed initially to see about a third of all value had gone from my portfolio. Looking at the "investments" view, all my holdings were still there, with the right number of shares in each, but the price of a lot of them was showing as zero.
As prices are showing sensibly in this ("LSE") site, I have at the moment to assume that there's some "platform" issue with ii, and/or its price feed has a problem. I was surprised that there was no announcement about the problem when I logged in.
Mike.
Okay Clued, thanks for the explanation.
Whatever the jurisdiction, CGT in relation to shareholdings, particularly longer-term ones, can become a complicated issue.
ATB, Mike.
Clued,
"you do know about FIFO treatment re shares sold under CGT ?".
Where are you getting your information? It's not been first in, first out, for over 14 years! The present arrangement ("Section 104" holdings) has been in force since April 2008. If you build up a holding in one company over various tranches of buying at different times, then you work out the "average" cost over the whole pool of shares, and use that to work out any gains when you sell. The exceptions are the "bed & breakfast" rule and the "same day" rule. It's all explained in the HMRC website.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-shares/same-company
Mike.
Hi teamwork86,
Thanks for the explanation/insight into how the process works.
Evidently it's gone well, with more capital raised than originally announced. My only slight surprise was that, given the high demand and the need for scaling back, the issue price was "only" 114p from the 113p to 117p range; however, your post goes to explaining how that has happened.
I personally didn't subscribe to the Retail Offer. That was after very careful consideration taking into account the behaviour of the market price, and how "messy" it could get, given that I like "round" numbers of shares in my holdings, with so many variables (unknown price, unknown degree of scaling back, etc), and with the relatively small number of new shares I was looking for - I was hoping to top up my existing holding by about 15%. I actually bought what I wanted in the market late last week at just over 114p so didn't do too badly and now have certainty.
All the best, Mike.
In case anyone's confused, the second, lower, rate (5.1684p per share) is a correction, which was issued in an RNS announcement at 17:27 today. It's all explained in the announcement.
Mike.
inflationbuster,
I'm not sure where you're getting your figures for number of shares from.
On this "LSE" site, which is now updated, it says 9,663m.
In NWG's latest relevant RNS announcements, one today and one yesterday, it gives the total number of Ordinary shares, excluding Treasury shares, as:-
9,662,843,918.
I hope you're not thinking of buying them all up...
Please leave a few for the rest of us!
Mike.
Eightyeight88,
Who told you that the first day of trading of the consolidated shares was 31 August? Your broker? Somewhere on social media? I always find it best in the first instance to hear it direct "from the horse's mouth", ie from the company themselves. In this case, NWG's RNS announcement is here, and there's a useful timetable part-way down the announcement:-
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/NWG/notice-of-general-meeting-and-class-meeting-c9a32krjtqj4yge.html
That said, superimposed can be any delays with the particular broker you use, as TheTrotsky says.
There's not just how long it takes for the "new", consolidated shares to appear in your account, but also how long it takes for them to pass on to you any cash you should get from "fractional entitlements" (although in my case I'm not "holding my breath" for that!).
In the Corporate Action Notice I received from my broker, although it's probably just a generic sentence, it says that one should allow 10 working days for your account to be fully updated, because there are circumstances beyond their control where they are reliant on other parties.
I hope that helps,
Mike.
TheTrotsky,
Okay, thanks for taking the time to explain your calculations and logic. There's nothing there I disagree with.
These are very small percentage differences that could get swamped by wider market movements.
I agree (although I haven't yet read today's 14:00 RNS announcement) that it would be *extremely* unlikely that they'd change the consolidation ratio at this very late stage. Although I don't think they've said so explicitly, I imagine that the ratio was probably set as long ago as late July, at the time of the results announcement. If they did now change the ratio, there'd be a very large number of resolutions that they'd have to amend and which would presumably have to be voted on all over again.
Regards,
Mike.
Hi TheTrotsky,
In your post yesterday at 23:36 you say:-
"... I sold my shares earlier this week at just over 261p with a view to buying back once the dust has settled. By my reckoning, if I can buy back the same number of new shares as I originally held for 258p or less then I'm quids in (after factoring in stamp duty and dealing charges)."
I'm not sure that that can be correct. By selling "cum-dividend", which they would have been at the 261p, isn't it the case that you've then foregone getting the ordinary 3.5p dividend, which you would have got had you held the shares into today when they went ex-dividend? Or am I misunderstanding how things work?
Mike.
Hi Renoljo,
You say:-
"Given the current market value is 260p, I don’t consider this to be a good offer.".
In effect, I think you are saying that you think that the current market price is too high. In that case wouldn't it best to sell your shares PDQ, and certainly before they get to ex-dividend date next Thursday, when everything else being equal you could expect the market price to fall to about 240p (subtracting the ordinary dividend of 3.5p and the special dividend of 16.8p)?
The per-share values for the ordinary dividend and the special dividend were, if my memory is correct, announced with the results on 29 July. At close of play the day before, the share price was only about 230p. On the day the results were announced, the share price rose considerably, to about 248p (I'm just taking those figures from the chart available on this site). Since then, the market price has risen quite a lot more, to just over 260p. Presumably most of that rise has been because "the market" was pleased with NWG's future prospects (based on what was said in the results), rather than because of the mechanics of this special dividend combined with consolidation.
It's a bit of a difficult one to call. If I had sufficient NWG shares to have a tax liability caused by the large dividend, and the shares were not in an ISA (or other tax wrapper), I'd be quite tempted to sell for 260-plus early next week if I could. However, neither of those conditions apply for me.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the consolidation ratio was decided on when the market price was probably a lot lower than it is now.
All the best, whatever you decide.
Mike.
Cabrawest,
"Is today ex divi day?"
Yes. It's in the RNS announcement of 28 July, complete with timetable:-
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/SHEL/shell-plc-second-quarter-2022-interim-dividend-zmev81xfmtskfaa.html
Mike.
Hi again kassam83,
No you don't get new shares "rather than" the special dividend paid in cash.
You get the special dividend paid in cash (16.8p for each share you currently own. You also get a new type of shares that *replace* the shares you currently own. If you currently have, as an example, 1,400 shares, instead you will end up with £235-20 cash plus 1,300 of the new type of shares.
Probably best if you just read the announcement directly yourself. It looks quite long, but it's not too bad:-
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/NWG/notice-of-general-meeting-and-class-meeting-c9a32krjtqj4yge.html
Regards,
Mike.
Hi kassam83,
Yes, that's when you get your new, consolidated, "larger" shares to replace your existing shares.
Perhaps rather than "due to be paid" they should have said "due to be admitted", or similar.
I'm presuming that HSBC is your broker.
Mike.
Hi kassam83,
Yes, that's when you get your new, consolidated, "larger" shares to replace your existing shares.
Perhaps rather than "due to be paid" they should have said "due to be admitted", or similar.
I'm presuming that HSBC is your broker.
Mike.