Member Info for Manyana

Where in the PVR item did it specify that HSBC were doing the compliance check?

The company said it has received notification from APEC's legal representatives that the previously arranged payment "is expected to be completed shortly, pending compliance checks by the bank [HSBC]".

Irish Examiner confirms HSBC compliance causing delay.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/providence-resources-shares-rise-on-barryroe-funding-optimism-937105.html

There is an old sales and advertising adage which says "say what you like about me but make sure you spell my name correctly".

There is no doubt Providence is getting great coverage over the money in the Irish papers. I think at least one if not two papers have had a statement every day. Again today there is another article about and this one seems a bit better in the positive stakes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/providence-resources-saga-continues-as-it-extends-barryroe-loan-deadline-1.3956954

There is not necessarily a contradiction in the two statements being issued.

As I pointed out last week, which perhaps you missed, remittances between HSBC and recipient for international transfers goes through two stages. HSBC1 remits to HSBC2 in the recipients country - so for example, HSBC Hong Kong to HSBC Ireland. Then HSBC2 remits the money to the recipient - HSBC Ireland to Providence and obviously both do not take place on the same day.

So the two statements could be totally compatible.

Perhaps it got both.

I wonder did you ever work in the real world.

Nobody is going to make those kinds of statements in RNS messages as they are legal statements to prevent insider trading whether negative or positive.

You seem to be the epitome of the famous "doubting Thomas"

Mamms, I read the first part of your item and then skimmed the rest. Reading it again I note your statement "Finally, it should be noted that it is unusual that they used their legal firm to give the assurances - "

I presume when you say "their legal firm" refers to APEC's funders' legal firm who presumably draew up the contracts under which the money was loaned .

Given that the funders are a major Chinese institution with $12billion assets it would be strange to get their legal representatives to tell a lie. After all, in the greater scheme of things $10m is small potatoes in that context.

"I don't see how the failure to pay the money once again amounts to good news."

Answer: because HSBC says the money is on the way not APEC but its funder note "the funder arranged for the remittance of $US 10 million from HSBC to Providence�s account." I am sure Providence has been issued with a copy of the remittance from funder to HSBC to prove that it has been actioned.

As I mentioned last week I did some business in Ireland last year and I only received my CGT clearance from Irish tax last week. What I forgot to mention, for the sake of our "separated breathern" in places like the UK is that Ireland has a calendar tax year which finishes on December 31st unlike England where it finishes on 6th of April. So, this clearance was six months late. That is the sort of delays now being experienced due to "money laundering" checks. The system is grinding to a halt.

That is why the RNS states "The legal representatives further advise that the remittance is expected to be completed shortly pending compliance checks by the bank." Bureaucracy gone mad and a lot of it down to the EU, like the approval which is now way overdue.

What amazes me is why Providence did not hold their fire rather than belting off numerous RNS as surely they know from experience how long it can take to move money around and they were in the information loop that it would not take a genius to check so why the continuous drip feed of "its on its way" or "perhaps it isn't".

Laurel and Hardy once again.
Let's hope this saga is now over and DCCAE can get their finger out and give the approval.

At least they agree that the money is on the way and the delay is just down to administration.

Owen Morgan, the boy from the council estate, St. Catherine's estate, Rush, County Dublin did what no other English man has done before and has captained the English team who won the World Cup of Cricket today; a competition which started in 1975. It is the first World Cup that English men have won in any sport since 1966 and he will go down in history.

Perhaps he could give some lessons to Tony, born in the lap of luxury with a silver spoon in his mouth, how it is done and how to succeed.

It might be a totally different message tomorrow if those kind Chinese financiers look on Ireland with a benevolent glaze and a big fat dollop of money has appeared in Providence's bank.

If you think APEC is not a real company why would it have a business relationship with COSL which is a wholly owned subsidiary of CNOOC Chinese National Offshore Oil Company.

I don't think the Chinese government who have so kindly have imprisoned about a million people would look too kindly at a fly-by-night operation ripping off one of its subsidiaries.

You will know from your time on good old iii (which is now a disaster of a site) that to use the full word would stop your item getting processed so the euphemistic version I use means the same but allows my posts got through.

I would prefer to use Mrs. Brown's famous expression when she did not like something or disagreed with it she would say "That's nice!!!" but I think that is a bit too subtle and needs the vocals to express its cynicism.

I am now off to do some channel hopping as I watch the two major hurling matches on the TV together with the Kerry football and an odd visit into Lords to see if an Irishman can do something no one in England has done and that is win a Cricket World Cup so come on Owen Morgan, show the Brits what an Irishman can do.

I am very sorry for your bereavement. We had a traumatic one ourselves about three years ago of someone very close to us who left us far too soon and we still have not gotten over it.

It is good that you contacted them and you have an update, vague as it is. I presumed nobody had contacted them so I thought it was about time to shake them up and, in effect, as you point out, they have up to 4 weeks legally to respond to a FOI request and then the chances are they will come back with the "under consideration" but at least it makes them realise people are "watching".

The only issue is why it is taking so long for the approval when they granted permission last year and only fell foul on a minor technicality. Surely, once that technical issue had been addressed which it would appear it has since they have stopped asking Providence for further information nearly two months ago, surely the approval should be a formality.

Well done, however, on behalf of all us "mushroom" investors in Providence i.e. "in the dark and usually covered in verbiage which has the same properties as the substance that comes out of the rear end of a bull".

I might be totally wrong but...

I say this with sympathy and not otherwise but I think Mamms, like many others, has been burnt when you consider this share traded up to about £7.50 so he is hoping but has his doubts that it can go back to anything like that and he can recoup his investment. And to that extent, the rest of us who have been here boy to man have the same doubts but without perhaps the same level of exposure.

And if you look at Providence's chequered past and all the promises that bombed you can understand that time after time they have flattered to deceive. They need only one good break and their best shot is Barryroe but that seems to have a hoodoo that every time it takes one step forward it seems to take two back.

So I am sure Mamms would like to average down but that could perhaps seem to him like good money after bad.

And I know how he feels when I consider the "abuse" I get from my own family about my holding in Providence which they think is a waste of time so I can perhaps appreciate Mamms dilemma. I never tell mine how many shares I have as they haven't got a clue about investing in shares in the first place and think they are a waste of time akin to betting on horses so I just grin and bear it and I know inside they are thinking "silly old fool".

But I am a bit like the down-trodden beast in the G.K.Chrsterton's poem "The Donkey" and like the donkey I am waiting like the donkey for my last hurrah as the poems final verse says:
Fools! For I also had my hour;
One far fierce hour and sweet:
There was a shout about my ears,
And palms before my feet.

In the meantime the fiasco goes on for Providence after all these years and reminds me of Laurel and Hardy and their catch phrase "Well, Stan, that's another nice mess you've gotten me into".

Are you listening Tony?

If there is no money on its way why have at least two entities lied. If it is not on its way and will not arrive why not admit it?

It does not make any sense as the credibility of the relevant players is undermined, namely APEC, HSBC and APEC's funders. Doesn't look too good for China's reputation either.

Two possible contributory factors apart from big mouth Brid; IOLAR is nothing more than another bag of water and no oil and Providence has still not got approval from DCCAE but surely if those were delaying the funding APEC would have come clean and said they were contributory factors.

And another point. Why has Providence been issuing small backstops in days. Why not say, for example, APEC has until DCCAE has given its approval before the money is handed over as the money is irrelevant until such time as the agreement is given.

This whole saga seems to have been handled about as well as Theresa May did with the Brexit negotiations and that was a disaster.

And since I have previously said the DCAAE approval is far more important than the money because I am sure a better deal than the APEC one can be found in Barryroe's favour we need that approval.

If it is not forthcoming next week I intend to contact DCCAEE under freedom of information to find out why the decision has not been made and they must respond.

Today:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/o-reilly-jnr-s-chinese-cash-battle-latest-in-string-of-providence-setbacks-1.3955169

Do you need to be spoon fed? "Please mammy can I have some more porridge."

My point is very simple. Providence has submitted two contrary statements.

In the first they said "Povidence has received a HSBC remittance notification dated July 5, 2019 from APEC."

In the second they said "On July 8, 2019, the Company advised that it had received a remittance notification dated July 5, 2019 from APEC’s funder for the transfer of US$ 10 million in favour of Providence."

The first said from APEC and the second said from APEC's funder. Those are contradictory statements.

So what is going on if even Providence cannot get it right?

And as for Mark101's comments, they may be closer to the truth than any of us realise. But even though the Dail breaks up today the ministers and their staff do not go on over two months holiday - not six weeks as they are not back until about the middle of September - but the work most of that time. Even if Richard Bruton might go away his deputy, Minister of State, Sean Canney is very able and I am sure is entitled to sign off per pro the minister if necessary and he is very keen on developing the Irish offshore and is in fact responsible for Natural Resources.

So asking me to adjudicate on Providence when they put out two different statements on the same thing is presuming I have a crystal ball and the only thing it can tell me is if it can be fd.up Providence have historically shown they can do it.

Please confirm!!!!! What cheek!!

If you don't think it is evident - ring HSBC and ask them. Better still, ring Providence and ask them.

I agree it is a bit confusing but as a user of HSBC I know when I issue a remittance order the system checks if I have the money and if I do the money goes out of my account before anything else happens or nothing happens other than I get a rap on my knuckles.

HSBC have their own remittance system between their banks in different countries so the first stage of the transfer could HSBC Hong Kong to HSBC Ireland and a second transfer from HSBC Ireland to Providence which might be the stumbling block based on checks for money laundering.

I do note, however, that HSBC was not mentioned in yesterday's dispatch. Whether that is significant or not, I am not sure.

HSBC Remittance Service:

The Global Transfer Service enables the customers (Customer) of The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited, India (HSBC/the Bank) a convenient way to transfer money between accounts linked in Global View, through the Bank's Personal Internet Banking in that country with your accounts held and accessible through HSBC Personal Internet Banking in any other country.

Banks can make terrible mistakes. I was very involved in the Y2K days and had to deal with a situation, not of my doing I might add although I had to clean up the mess, where a well known New York bank issued over $2billion worth of cheques without dates before anybody realised. Now, a cheque without a date means it has no time limit.

So if I was to catalogue all the banking howlers I have come across your faith in banks could be sorely tested.

Based on the time it took Providence to drill Druid, CNOOC must be pretty close to its required depth.

I am not sure if they have to broadcast the result when they get one but since they are working on a public license I hope they do. We all want to see how the land lies.

While we wait for Providence here is a bit of sad news. A great Irish comedian died today; Brendan Grace.

To get a taste of his humour here is one of his best jokes about a cat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hsz_UIvdHo