Member Info for kenj

Brexit my be largely over but the joke continues, and as usual its on us!
Spotted, tucked away in Fridays' Daily Mail.

"Britain will pay £11billion into the EU budget this year; despite Brexit.
Treasury documents reveal the sum is part of the estimated £50billion "divorce bill" negotiated by Theresa May and signed off by Boris Johnson.
Britain gave £10.9billion in the last year of full membership.
During Brexit talks Brussels said that the UK had to contribute to the EU's seven-year budget even after leaving. Payments are due to fall to £8.7billion next year."

We had originally agreed to the EU's proposed £18billion leaving fee, which was then recalculated by the EU to £39billion. After some huffing and puffing we meekly agreed to pay the higher demand.

I do not recall seeing any news articles saying that the leaving ransom had been increased again, by another £11billion to £50billion. Not sure if Boris was too embarrassed to tell us of this minor concession, or if the newspapers just did not have the space to print it, with all the hysteria and excitement of Meghan's forthcoming interview on the Oprah Winfrey show.

On the up side though, I don't suppose printing another £11billion of funny money will make much difference to the economy when you consider how much has been thrown at Covid.

What a surprise, Boris has bottled it and kicked the can down the road yet again!
I recall him declaring that Oct 15th would be the final date for a deal to be announced, as companies needed time to plan and adapt to us leaving the EU on Jan 1st 2021. That would have given us 10 weeks to prepare. Businesses now have two and a half weeks to prepare, and a decision still looks far away. The once mighty Britain has become an international laughing stock. Our politicians have for so long done little more than rubber stamp decisions made in Brussels, that they have forgotten how to govern and rule a country. Now faced with the twin problems of Covid and Brexit, their inertia, incompetence and indecisiveness are ruining this country.

Camkite,
Your last deleted post on this board was around 15th Jan 2019, as I replied to you the following day. Your profile though, shows that you have been a member since 29th June 2015. Very clever, getting posts removed while keeping your profile open.

As for No Deal, the only reason that I have sided with this option is that the EU are never going to give us a fair deal. We have been negotiating with them for over 1600 days and are as far apart on major issues as when we started. Boris keeps extending the deadline for talks to complete. He does not appear to have the balls to say enough is enough, we are leaving without a deal. Not much of an improvement on the supine Teresa May imo.

Best Christmas wishes to you too.

Welcome back Camkite.

Sorry if you find that you are talking to yourself, but anybody who has read this board from the start will see Doze and I talking to what appears to be an imaginary friend; as all of your earlier posts have been removed. And if that was not bad enough Fingertips then had all of his posts deleted as well. I can only assume that you two remoaners are both embarrassed by what you had previously written.

I am quite happy for people to read or discuss my earlier posts, but will not waste my time talking to posters who are not equally open.

"Simple" and "strange" do not begin to cover it.
A more accurate description is to be found in the posts title.

And just what the hell has this got to do with BREXIT?
In case you had not noticed we have not actually left yet, and our tax laws are the same as they were before the vote to leave.

Even NASA do not believe in Man Made Climate Warming, according to this article.

"NASA admits that climate change occurs due to changes in Earth's solar orbit, not because of SUV's and fosil fuels."
https://www.sott.net/article/420049-NASA-admits-climate-change-occurs-because-of-changes-in-Earths-solar-orbit-not-because-of-SUVs-and-fossil-fuels

I remember Dr David Bellamy, who died recently. He was a first rate scientist with a common touch. He had the ability to explain difficult things clearly, simply, and with a sense of humour. I was appalled when the BBC dropped him because he spoke out against climate change. The BBC, to this day, refuse to discuss climate change, as they regard it as a proven fact. Arrogant t0$$ers!

Labour clearly learned nothing from their humiliation at the polls last month.
The vote to enact Brexit in the Commons yesterday was won by 99 votes (330 for and 231 against). All of the votes in favour were cast by Conservative politicians. Not a single vote in favour was cast by Labour, Lib Dems, SNP, Ulster Unionists, Greens or independent members. Labour look like being in the wilderness for a very long time, at this rate.

Jacob Reece-Mogg

"Like Gulliver tied down at Lilliput, we are tied down by a rag tag motley collection of feeble, fickle, footling politicians. All in desperate pursuit of a single ignoble aim - to renege on the solemn promise they made to the British people and try to cancel the largest single democratic mandate in our history"

Sums it up fairly well I think!

For those who like me are not as well educated as Mr Mogg, I looked up "footling".
Footling - adjective - meaning trivial and annoying.

Doze,
Losing posts on here seems to be very common.
All of the posts written by Camkite have been removed, so reading back through the posts, it appears that some of us are talking to an imaginary friend. Checking on his profile, he has submitted 4,281 posts, but not one of them is visible.

Perhaps Camkite realised he was talking rubbish and asked for his posts to be removed. Whatever the reason, removing posts from a thread makes the surviving posts disjointed and loses the point of the argument. I am appalled that LSE have removed selected posts from an ongoing discussion thread!

I agree with you that Borris proroguing parliament might be the best way of getting the job done, but the remoaners are not taking this laying down. The next couple of months are going to be very interesting. Borris clearly has the EU rattled as the French are reported to be considering offering an extension to the 31st October deadline. I trust Borris will tell them where they can shove it!

Boris has got his work cut out after losing the Brecon by-election.
Votes below:
Liberal Democrat 13,826, Conservative 12,401, Brexit Party 3,331, Labour 1,680.

Had the Conservatives and the Brexit party not both fielded a candidate, then the Tories may well have won. The Conservatives and Brexit votes exceeded those of the Lib Dems and Labour combined. This points the way to what may happen if a General Election needs to be called.

The Lib Dems and Labour have already talked of not fielding candidates against each other so as to not split and weaken the REMAIN vote. Borris has so far rejected pulling Tory candidates from constituencies where they have little chance of winning to give the Brexit party a better chance. If he maintains this stance then he will divide the Brexit vote and Remain candidates from Labour or the Lib Dems will probably win the day, and Brexit could be forever lost.

From Wednesday's Daily Mail:
Former Tory minister Guto Bebb described the plan to suspend Parliament as "an absolute outrage", adding: "It would be basically saying that a No Deal Brexit, which has no democratic mandate whatsoever, would be imposed on the people of this country without Parliament sitting"

So a No Deal Brexit, has no democratic mandate whatsoever, does it?

The question on the EU Referendum in 2016 was:
"Should the UK remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?"

The referendum said nothing of leaving only if we got a deal. The mandate from the electorate was to leave, pure and simple. Mr Bebb is either dishonest or stupid to say that there is no democratic mandate to leave. He was no doubt happy to accept the decision of voters to elect him to Parliament, I assume? MP's from the main parties stood on a promise to deliver Brexit. They have failed to get an acceptable deal, leaving no deal, or remaining in the EU as the only realistic alternatives. Mr Bebb like many other MP's on all sides of the House, need to remember that they are there to represent the voters, not to tell them what Parliament will or will not let them have.

Davidpqz,
It is unfortunate that some car manufacturers are reducing their workforce and factories in the UK, but as we now do not have any British car manufacturers that was always a risk. You might question the logic of the governments that stood by and did nothing while our car and steel makers were taken over by companies from Germany, France, America, China, India etc.

As regards the "economic suicide" of leaving the EU, we have heard all that tosh before. Remember Project Fear and the dire warnings that were predicted if we dared to vote to leave 3 years back. Prominent people and organisations including the governor of the Bank of England and the CBI predicted a recession that did not happen.

Currently the UK is performing better than most of our European colleagues, and we have far better employment figures than most of Europe. There will of course be some upheaval and problems if we leave, but this is to be expected. There were problems and price increases when we joined the Common Market and had to discard many of our Commonwealth trading partners.

As for "The only form of Brexit that is do-able is the no deal option" you are having a laugh. Many in Parliament are fiercely opposed to leaving without a deal, and there are threats to bring down the government should the new Prime Minister even attempt this. So Boris, if he wins, will have his work cut out to deliver the 31st Oct Brexit he has promised. Jeremy Hunt on the other hand does not want to leave, so seems destined to repeat the mistakes of Theresa May, should he be the next PM.

Torries to get slaughtered in EU elections.

Opinion polls are predicting big wins for Nigel Farage's Brexit Party, with one poll giving them 34% of the vote; more than the Conservatives (11%) and Labour (21%) put together.

An EU protest vote of anything like these proportions will send our a very clear message to Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn, but will they listen? I doubt it!

The EU vote could also point to the likely outcome of a second referendum, that some posters on here have called for.

Doze,
I would not expect the EU to expel us, no matter how many Brexit MEP's the UK elects. They will number too few among the 626 elected members to be anything more than a nuisance.

It is the EU commission, which proposes legislation. Its 20 ministers are expected to set aside national loyalties in favour of their specific policy brief.
The Council of Ministers, another unelected body, and, to a lesser extent, the 626-member parliament, then take on the job of enacting legislation.

We are the second largest net contributor to the EU. They need our money to keep their shambolic empire ticking over. They will do everything in their power to keep us tethered to the EU, in one way or another. They are also terrified that other dissatisfied countries may also choose to leave, especially if we are seen to do well, out on our own.

"Also – sorry to be a bore – there is no 'will of the people.' There are sixty something million UK citizens: we each have a will of our own."

Filtertips, there may well be 60 million people in the UK, but there are not 60 million voters. Many are too young, and others may not be entitled, or registered to vote. While others may be completely disinterested, or too idle to go to the polling station. The UK rarely ever holds a referendum, but when it does it is asking the people for their opinion; Which option should the Government take?

Whether you like it or not, this is as close to representing the "will of the people" as we are ever likely to get. Yet you pooh-pooh it because less than 34 million people voted! The referendum turnout was higher than in most recent General Elections. Should we ignore these election results because not enough people voted?

"Counting Officers have verified that a total of 33,568,184 ballot papers will be included in the count for the referendum. Based on a confirmed electorate of 46,500,001, turnout at the referendum was 72.2 percent," the watchdog said." The Telegraph.

"If the ability to strike our own trade agreements is upheld in the Commons and the EU will not bend then we might be ejected with no deal by the EU."

Doze, I am sorry but I just cannot see this happening. We are the second largest net contributor to the EU. They need our money to keep their shambolic empire ticking over. The will do everything in their power to keep us tethered to the EU, in one way or another. They are also terrified that other dissatisfied countries may also choose to leave, especially if we are seen to do well, out on our own. This is why we have been offered such a bad deal and been asked to pay an outrageously large compensation fee to be allowed to leave.

"So you’ve come up with a bizarre fantasy about what might have happened in a parallel world in which something else - that didn’t happen - did happen and you’ve used that fantasy as a prop for your argument."

Filtertips, it is hardly a fantasy! Russia sent the tanks into Hungary in 1956, and into Czechoslovakia in 1968 to suppress populist anti USSR uprisings, and they also encouraged Poland to impose Martial Law in 1980 to put down another uprising.

And as for "Also – sorry to be a bore – there is no ‘will of the people.", do you know of a better form of democracy? You seem set on some sort of hard line fascist dictatorship. Well rest assured the EU is not far short of a dictatorship, and they are constantly seeking more powers and control. FYI, in 1975 the UK voted to join the Common Market, not the bossy European federation it has morphed into. As it happens Ireland was the only Country whose people voted for this change, and they needed a second vote to get the answer right. The French and Dutch electorate had also rejected an earlier version of the European constitution, but they were never allowed another vote.

Doze,
I have very little understanding of the Irish Backstop, or how it might work, or be got around. And I am pretty sure that most of our politicians are no better informed. However, a physical customs border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is a complete non starter. It would be practically impossible to implement and enforce. It would make far more sense for Ireland to unify as one country (and that ain't going to happen either).

The EU has no wish to negotiate a solution with us on this tricky issue. They regard it as a stick to beat us with. So as our craven politicians have rejected leaving without a deal, we will be in no better position come October, than we are now. A complete farce!

"According to CNN: a recent survey found that 54% of British citizens polled calling for a strong, rule-breaking leader."

So what? If I remember correctly, 52% voted to leave the EU nearly 3 years ago! The people don't get what they want, they get what parliament and their EU masters will give them. What we need is a parliament that will deliver the will of the people, politicians that are true to the pledges in their manifesto, not the small minded and self interested weasels that we currently have. Changing which party is in power will change nothing, the malaise runs through all parties.

Parliament has repeatedly voted down a No Deal exit, so we cannot threaten the EU that we will walk away if they do not soften their stance, and give us a better deal. Without the option of being able to walk away, we have virtually nothing to bargain with when negotiating with the EU. Although we could of course offer to double the £39bn separation payment to 78bn.

Why anyone should wish to remain in a club that treats us as serfs and insists that we can only leave on their terms is beyond me. It is perhaps just as well that they have not got their EU Army up and running yet, otherwise they might copy the USSR and send in the tanks to suppress any rebellious nations.

The EU is a failing empire. Germany is teetering on the brink of recession; France is in open revolt; Italy and Greece are near bankrupt, and unemployment levels throughout Europe are way higher than in the UK. The Euro currency is in danger of collapse due to the disparate needs of Germany and the Med countries. One size fits all is not a sound way to manage different countries financial needs. If we don't get out we will no doubt be expected to help out when it goes tits up, and waste even more of UK tax payers money.