I want them to post profits and release trading updates as much as anybody else. But the big money potential imo is K-pop and these festivals haven’t even happened yet, so let’s give em a chance instead of repetitive posts about profitability.
If we have to wait as long as Frankfurt last year to get numbers for each festival then they deserve some stick. But hopefully, with the licensing model and upcoming broker note info, it will be much clearer to decipher what the bottom line is going to be.
A proper trading update every quarter would be top of my wish list but repetitive posts profitability are getting tedious.
Agree the fixed fee licensing is a great move.
Rio fair comments and would apply here if we were at heady valuations. But we are not, nowhere close.
Interesting. That would make sense, how big Indonesia is. Hopefully it is in the line of sight for them to take the k.flex brand there.
Simple they are partnered with SBS and KBS, 2 of the biggest broadcasters in Korea, who are paying an upfront license fee of $1m to lvcg, so I'm sure they won't be putting on shows willy nilly.
Even if they did two Japan shows this year, as alluded previously that we may see another confirmed for September, you would hope a very conservative and worst case scenario would be that lvcg's share of merch+streaming would cover any expenses and that the license fee was pure profit.
License fee models are generally high margin in any line of business. It remains to be seen if that turns out the case here of course.
Japan is the biggest kpop market outside of Korea.
DC mentioned in one of his recent interviews, in Japan it is not just teeny boppers who are interested in kpop, it is also an older demographic, that also have more money to spend on merchandise.
Twisting things again. Why? I don't think MB said profit in the millions for Formula E at all, did he? He might have said it for the group.
Revenue came from the management fee and 10% share of sponsorship is it? So it was never going to be 7 figures revenue, let alone profits for the first event.
On a separate note, If the kpop division doesn't return 7 figures profit in 2023 then I would be very surprised (and much poorer as I'm holding based on hoping that happens). Call that rampy if you like but its what I believe, hence why I'm bothering following the company. What's your excuse?
I will make 'huge' assumptions based on your posts if I like, thanks. It is there for all to see in your posts.
The last time I say this and contribute to your merry go round of waffle - My whole point was the market didn't price in any profits or good news for Formula E. So saying where are the profits, well nobody expected any (bar one or two mindless rampers on here).
Who cares about the project. Stop talking in riddles. We only care about revenue, costs and numbers relating to LVCG accounts. Not the project. Why are you trying to confuse things. I picked you up on this because you were inferring that the event was running at a loss to lvcg, which was based on nothing.
And the second point, I think the confusion was you stating the event was unprofitable, basing that on the Management fee and revenue. What is key is was it profitable or unprofitable to LVCG, of which we don't know yet. LVCG are getting paid the £350k management fee, not being billed for it.
I didn't say I speak for the market. The market speaks for itself in price and volume. That was my point, which I will repeat again:
Where did the market react positively (via share price action) with anything concerning Formula E? Answer to you and Bennster is that it didn't, so both of you saying where is the profit etc, well the market didn't expect any masses of profit and it doesn't look like we have got any. So there you go. Market was correct.
It was the first event though and Formula E is a new concept, so time will tell in the coming years whether it makes a profit for the group or not.
I asked what the market expected, not what some posters here expected. The most important barometer, the only barometer we can about. The Share Price.
On your 2nd point, saying the event run at a loss because of the below then would be a fact. But again, the only thing we care about is the bottom line to LVCG. LVCG get credited with £350k to manage the event. The £350k isn't entered into LVCG's balance sheet as an expense or debit.
What am I missing, or have I misunderstood you?
Was the market expecting profit from Formula E? Please show me where the SP has reacted positively to any Formula E news? Indeed, the SP did drop when the scaremongering came that it wasn't going to happen. Then when it was confirmed the SP didn't really react.
To say Formula E has run at a loss, what are you basing that on?
Stop clogging up the forum simple. Spring is approaching, don't you have some saplings to attend to?
Frankfurt was a disappointment financially. Shareholders were dreaming of profits into the 7 figures, with streaming revenue being a potentially big win, but it never came to pass. They didn't have the rights for Live Streaming and the 2nd day didn't sell out. It was their first festival, some slack should be cut.
Lessons learnt is demonstrated in this new license model. LVCG also hold the rights to the Live Streaming in Japan, which is the biggest kpop market outside of Korea. With the license fee of $1m, a share of the merch + Streaming, it seems very clear to me that Japan will be very profitable. The other gigs I see smaller numbers but still profitable, with the aim in the background to be building the brand. People can argue otherwise and I'm all ears to any logical debate.
They have deserved some stick, namely this short term loan facility and not posting numbers / profit. But it looks to me like lessons were learnt from Frankfurt and there are clearly some big differences in how LVCG will generate revenue from these kpop festivals, compared to Frankfurt. They are partnered with SBS and KBS, so the big acts are guaranteed.
The kpop division is shaping up to be everything shareholders would hope. We just have to watch it play out and wait for the numbers. The only risk I see is Director greed but even despite if that does happen, I can still the group being comfortably profitable this year. Also I do think this criticism is possibly overblown, when you look at the facts. The StART acquisition for example. In saying that, expenses would be one area of concern. I doubt he flies economy anywhere, nor scrimps on any hotel stays.
Yes a trading update would be great and is needed. They said they would report every quarter. That needs to include profit.
I do agree though with MB. A lot of sour grapes stinking this place out.
True but then if we had all the numbers, we'd likely be much higher, and therein lies the gamble of course and (hopefully value!).
So for all your gripes simple, and I agree with some of them (which they have rectified somewhat in recent RNSs by including some numbers) at the end of it all, you also think we are vastly undervalued.
Great news and great summary MB.
Knigel I'm not sure simple is a non holder, reading his messages. I detect frustration that only a shareholder could feel.
Of course it needs clarity on what it means for profitability to the group but LVCG's revenue is coming from the management fee and share of the sponsorship, no? We had the Ocean Race aswell, so hopefully they can do a Trading Update soon covering both.
Either way, tickets selling out for an event you are hosting and trying to sell title sponsorship for next year is good news.
What did the post say, out of interest? Seems abit odd, I've never seen them censor stuff that was reasonable.
So based on that simple, Miton have finished trading?
In other news, looks like the 4th Frankfurt act is tbc tomorrow 8am GMT. Hopefully it is a big one.
https://twitter.com/K_FLEX_/status/1627231296291209216