Member Info for jalpa

Not forgetting the share price rose sharply after those RNS because investors believed the "gamechanging" boiler had technically matured,become a reality, entered production and was about to hit the market turning Flow into the "Google" of the domestic heating industry, making investors rich. This, of course, was the impression those RNS sought to create. The alleged reality, supported by history, was Flow were struggling to get a single prototype manufactured and to work at all.

"Did one substantially completed boiler roll off the production line on November 14 is what could be challenged ?"....the numbers are irrelevant. The case would center on the boiler not achieving a performance commensurate with the claims made for it, or having a remotely acceptable level of performance reasonably expected of a domestic boiler. Therefore the boiler was still in development in November 14 and was a prototype. Not a production released product worthy of increasing production volume to 500000. Manufactured goods are universally subject to a life cycle. Conception, development, testing and production. The boiler in November 2014 was evidently not fit for production, otherwise installs would have taken place and performance publish. A production ready mCHP plus its tooling would have more value than its was sold for. I believe any case would be open and shut.

All that is worthy of discussion about this piece of shit, and the shit that ran it is whether the personal assets of the BoD could be returned to private investors through private legal action either as an organized group or by individuals using evidence and statements made by ex-employees, suppliers and scrap yards under oath. The legal action would center on a Fraud action based on the statement made in November 2014 that the boiler had entered volume production, when in reality it is alleged that the boiler was in fact a prototype whose function was deficient and the company was struggling to get manufactured at all. Given this background, the reason for the release of a subsequent RNS a couple of weeks later, increasing the production from 360000 to 500000 would also add weight to the allegation that this company lied and investors were the victims of fraud. Other bodies may be concerned about market manipulation but no one really gives a shit about that. The existence or trading status of Flow is of no importance as an individual(s) cannot hide behind a company when committing a criminal act.

let me guess....Alan (Glenny / Jibal is a family relation???

"And yet it seems like ex employees with detailed knowledge can't let it go?"....possibly because they might believe they are witness to a multi million pound crime and feel the need to pursue justice as they feel a moral obligation to reject criminal activity? I assume this obvious possibility is beyond your consideration.

Like most emotions, arrogance obscures clear thinking and is a barrier to listening and learning leading to stupidity, which the arrogant mind is incapable of accepting, thus leading to further stupidity. Defence of this companies behavior maybe the arrogant mind refusing to accept believing the RNS and wild claims made or the boiler are the behaviors of a total gullible mug, To have lost a significant sum believing such statements cant be easy. To accept it is to accept you are one of lifes stupid, As AIM shams go, and I have seen one or two, Flows wasn't particularly smart, as claiming something works (ie. The Boiler) when anyone qualified to do so could see it clearly couldn't work isn't smart. Either Stiff knew every time he opened his mouth people were laughing in disbelief, or he was arrogant enough to believe his Technical lead, who himself was probably arrogant enough to believe he had the skill and experience to think this boiler could actually work and be made. Less emotion. leads to better chances of survival.

"GRDF also noted that we had a clear advantage on performance against competing technologies when measured in time from switch-on to generation of electricity" This statement is significant as it strongly suggests the boiler was incapable of generating significant power as the only positive to be reported was transient response.

As stated previously, if we assume the company statements are spurious and not to be trusted, the outcome of the Engie and Gaz tests and trials has never been published and neither was interested in buying what IP existed (not much judging by the sale price)

"suggests to my mind that possibly the scroll only is being tested"...well it evidently failed the tests (for obvious reasons) as no results or findings were published. The commencement of trials was always announced by Flow, but the results never. Again, this suggests to all but the most gullible, that this was to stimulate the share price, from which individuals personally profited.

"The bones of this business was the boiler why invest 50 million in a tech"....The bones of this business was the story of the boiler and that stories ability to attract investment from greedy ignorant unsophisticated investors. The BoD profited directly by being included in that boiler "investment", which would explain why " a BOD ever entertain such a deception". You state "why have the employees remained so silent" but they evidently haven't been silent as they have been posting on here as "trolls" and "shorters" called such in a desperate attempt to paly down their rational believable claims Most of which are totally substantiated by history, the companies past performance and the fact that any investment in the boilers "tech" was sold for a pittance.....given you state you lost so much popgoestheweasel, why do you try to defend this company? I should point out what happened here is blatantly obvious now, even to the least cynical.

Clear evidence to bear must be brought to rebut this, for any successful claim...the first evidence is the scroll design shown by Stiff in one of his presentations isn't capable in a machine of 1.4kWme. You could argue this, but to do so would be like arguing a 1.2 lire VW Polo is faster than a Bugatti Veyron. Plus those 800 boilers have never been seen. Had they been fit for purpose, it would have been a simple matter if having the performance independently verified and publishing it. Circumstantial evidence, motive are all admissible evidence by themselves. Insred of rebutting the claim of functioning product, given the accusation, the onus is on proving the claim, and the claim wasn't proven when doing so would have been a straightforward and indeed normal thing to do.

Just waiting to hear from Jabil about production figures including end of line testing data. Going to contact a list of ex-employees from LinkedIn and see what they will say in writing. There is enough posts on here which correlate closely enough to suggest the truth about the boiler is being told. It would be quite a feat to fabricate a lie with so many facets by so many posters (or even one poster) for so long. Wheras Flow haven't said anything other than the boiler entered volume production, was tested and trailed and production was stopped because of VAT. And Brexit. And the wrong sort of leaves on the line.

"may bear a great degree of truth or half truth" so a fit for purpose boiler has been seen? When points are posted as fact, as I have done, it is insufficient to merely doubt them. Another example is when you state " The last two are blatantly incorrect" but in fact, a poster called "Cirrus Optimum" stated the boiler didn't work in late November 2014. He was called out as an ex-employee which not only reinforces his allegations, but also confirms Flow employees were manipulating this board. The question isn't whether the boiler existed or not, its whether there is going to be investigations for fraud or a private action, and what statements would be made under oath.By ex-employees, suppliers, Jabil etc. Once it is established all of the boilers were evidently prototypes for trial and evaluation, which they so obviously were, the statements regarding volume production of 500000 become obviously misleading and made to stimulate the share price. That persons profited from this manipulation is clear. cut. Fraud....

1) A Flow mCHP boiler was never seen. 2) Certified Performance data for the Flow mCHP boiler was never published.3) No one has yet volume produced a scoll machine at a manufactured cost that makes the Flow mCHP fianancialy viable.4) 3-D Tolerance analysis based on the exploded picture in Tony Stiffs YouTube presentation shows that with current manufacturing methods, producing scrolls of this displacement to orbit with sufficient clearance to both be quiet and reliable and not have excessive leakage is extremely cost prohibitive.5) We know Flow patents have no bearing on achieving cost effective volume produced small scrolls.6) We know that it would be a simple matter for a prosecution to explain the difference between a "prototype" build and a production released build. most lay people can understand building small quantities of products for trail installation is prototyping. Not "volume production". 7) We know the production run volume had been increased from 360000 to 500000, despite the fact no fit for purpose boiler had been developed. 8) we know around 1000 boilers were produced that ended up in a skip, likely bound for Ash Metal Recyclers in Ellesmere Port..9) We know members of board made significant personal wealth from the claims made for the Flow boiler. 10) We no of no creditable argument against any of the previous.11) We know popgoestheweasel, despite losing significant sums, bizarrely defends the behavior of this company and tries to justify the actions and statements made by its former failed CEO, Tony Stiff. This leads people to believe he is Tony Stiff. 12 We know that posters on here were warning of the non-existence of the Flow boiler in late 2014.

And given the boiler and its performance figures, its trial results and any proof of any installation was never published, I put it to you, popgoestheweasel, that because the scroll could not be manufactured that the boiler didn't work in November 2014 and that the RNS misled to extract money from shareholders?

The questions are as simple as the answers. Q1) Did a boiler of merchantable quality and function exist in November 2014? Q2) If not, what was the purpose of the RNS claiming it did? Q3) If the boiler wasn't of merchantable quality, why manufacture it?

No one is debating "volume production" what has been stated is a viable working boiler capable of the claims being made for it wasn't produced at all in November 2014.It isn't a question of the quantities, The quantity was 0. nil.zero.Nada. And bear in mind in 2018 as the company finally vanishes, has still never been seen.

If a company had stated it had invented time travel and the gamechanging time machines volume production had been initiated, how fairly obvious would it be and how easy would it be to prove volume production hadn't been initiated?

haha..Quantum overtones..must be a superior intellect..yet to be determined?!! Haha. Not Tulips.....Not Railways...No, never seen because its unmanufacturable with current volume manufacturing methods...Hence seen nowhere and not everywhere. The difference between that which is academic theory and commercial. Simples. Not cats and boxes. Not physics....just process capability,

Back in 2014 it was fairly obvious this was a sham and you could predict the next move the company would make. The claims being made for the boiler were frankly far too good to be true. If you could make a scroll that small that efficient, they would be everywhere instead of nowhere. Stiff would have made less of a fool of himself had he said Flow had initiated volume production of magic carpets. It was clear social media and forums were a key a part of the sham, as anyone who stated boiler couldn't work was trolled en-mass. In an organized manner as is so often the case in AIM shams. So clear and convincing were the doubters who posted, there was mass selling. The price dropped and the company made its first mistake in releasing an RNS stating it did not understand the drop in price. Clearly it knew the boiler had issues and these issues were being aired on forums and wiser investors smelt the shit. That RNS was proof of the importance of internet forums in pumping the fairy tale. The old adage of "if something is too good to be true, it probably isn't" couldn't be more fitting. Now it is widely accepted that the boiler never was a viable consumer product and certainly couldn't pay for itself, what would worry me is who invested, how much they lost and how long they will remember.